Non-Newtonian movement...

[FitzTheRuke]

First of all, the dwarf only has a 5 speed because of his armor, otherwise it would be 6 afaik.

Second, the normal speed is moving AS FAST as you safely can without giving someone combat advantage. Ever played paintball? Do you saunter along? No, you move as fast as you can while trying not to get shot. This is "normal" speed.

"Running" is throwing caution to the wind and running faster than is safe.

So it makes perfect sense that the dwarf gains 40% while the elf only 25%. The dwarf isn't as spry as the elf, and has to move slower to be cautious.

Also, this isn't maximum overland movement or anything, it's EFFECTIVE COMBAT SPEED as other posters have mentioned.

AND the timing is abstract, and therefore CANNOT be calculated into accurate measurements of m/s.

Fitz

 

[hong]

Here, try again.

1- Running speed is too slow. People should move faster than that when running. It makes no sense.

A dwarf running moves slower than an elf running. Seems fine to me. A dwarf running moves at the same pace as an elf hustling. Again, seems fine to me.

2- A dwarf running gains a 40% increase to his speed. An elf running gains a 28% increase to his speed. It makes no sense.

IT MAKES NO SENSE.

Very clearly, "makes no sense" in this case is a contingent description, as has been demonstrated in the thread.

 

[Andur]

If people can put water on fire = IT MAKES NO SENSE.

You might want to step back and not click on this link...

Water on Fire

 

[Lanefan]

I suppose there's three quasi-normal speeds of movement, both in and out of combat:

1. Normal walk - in combat, this would be used when someone is sneaking, or concentrating on something else (like maintaining a spell).
2. Jog - this would be your standard combat speed.
3. Sprint - the flat-out run as fast as you can go, for a short time only.

Now, I've always equated "move rate" with "normal walk", but that's because I go by 1e measurements using 30-second rounds (original 1-minute rounds would, of course, be even slower). A Human in 1e had a move of 12" or 150' per round; working that out to miles per hour gives 3.41, which is a fast walk or painfully slow jog.

That said, the 4e move rate at first appears to be sped up quite a bit...but let's run the numbers. "5 squares" gives 25' per round (ignoring silly diagonal garbage)...rounds are what, 6 seconds? So, 5 rounds in 30 seconds (to bring it in line with the numbers I already have) gives 125' - which is in fact *slower* than before...just a shade under 3 miles an hour, which is standard walking speed for a normal averagely-healthy person like me. (I walk to work each day; it's about a mile, and takes me about 20 minutes including having to stop for traffic lights once or twice. And I'm no athlete!)

A fit person can easily jog 6 or 7 miles in an hour; marathon runners sustain up to 10 m.p.h. Sprinting is even more extreme - 100 meters (330 feet) in 10 seconds is world-class, so let's make it 300 feet instead...this gives a sprint speed of 180' in a round - which is over 6 times the "standard" move rate!

Now, someone in heavy armour etc. isn't going to sprint 6 times as fast as she can walk, but anything less than triple speed is utterly unrealistic.

Designers, is it too late for a re-think?

Lanefan

p.s. I know the 120' per 30 seconds = 3.41 miles per hour math is right, but if someone wants to check the rest above for mistakes feel free...

 

[Surgoshan]

Now, someone in heavy armour etc. isn't going to sprint 6 times as fast as she can walk, but anything less than triple speed is utterly unrealistic.

Heavy armor will weight roughly fifty pounds. It's definitely possible to run with that, particularly as it will be well distributed to provide even protection.

But sprinting while wearing clothing as light as possible will leave you winded and physically incapable of much more than walking and gasping. Trying to do it while carrying 80 or more pounds of crap just isn't going to happen unless you want to spend forever saying "Hold on, guys, just need to catch my breath."

Additionally, there's the fact that you have to accelerate your 80 extra pounds of crap. That's going to make your starts and stops ponderous, and you'd probably spend most of a round getting up to sprinting speed in any case.

The boosts provided are already significant without getting into the "Holy carp!* He just ran a marathon with someone sitting on his shoulders!" territory while also avoiding a whole lot of complicating rules and issues regarding encumbrance and acceleration and recovery.

* Mackerel are undignified.

 

[Hypersmurf]

AND the timing is abstract, and therefore CANNOT be calculated into accurate measurements of m/s.

To be fair, the Scalegloom Hall appendix does actually state that a round represents about 6 seconds.

-Hyp.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

To be fair, the Scalegloom Hall appendix does actually state that a round represents about 6 seconds.

Sure, accent on the "about", because an encounter is 5 minutes no matter how many rounds it takes. So if an encounter is five minutes and a round is six seconds then a move action is...?

I'll answer that one for you: NOT AN EXACT MEASUREMENT OF TIME. Think about it: You can do a standard, move, & minor action on your turn, right? So if you do two moves (the max you can do, but don't bother with the minor, where did that time go? Are the two moves now three seconds each? If you did the minor would they take less time to fit it in?

It's ALL approximates and IN NO WAY reflects exactly how much time anything takes. Therefore complaining that they can't run fast enough is silly.

Are you going to flip out because a 5 round encounter would mean that the rounds were a full minute each? (I'm sure SOMEONE will!)

Fitz

 

[Imp]

It's ALL approximates and IN NO WAY reflects exactly how much time anything takes. Therefore complaining that they can't run fast enough is silly.

No. But it does approximately. If that approximation is way off, it can strike somebody's plausibility bone.

I can think of a few situations where you'd want a plausible measurement of how far a character can flat-out sprint without always having to fall back on fiat. Something where the rest of the party holds off the Dark Oozle while the one PC runs off to drop the foozle into the mouth of Mount Doozle, and possible complications to that action, for one example.

 

[Ten]

Excuse me if I missed something, but who said we have to assume a square is 5 feet in 4e? I thought that was a purely previous edition conversion, and there was nowhere stating it was 5 feet in 4e yet. This was the case last I checked, but I'll be honest, I missed a lot...

 

[ZombieRoboNinja]

IT MAKES NO SENSE.

Do you want me to define "it makes no sense"?

Okay. Here we go:

If things fall upwards instead of downwards = IT MAKES NO SENSE.
If people can put water on fire = IT MAKES NO SENSE.
If skeletons get poison damage = IT MAKES NO SENSE.
If character swim in lava = IT MAKES NO SENSE

It's just that kind of lack of sense.

Why would a Wookiee, an eight-foot tall Wookiee, want to live on Endor, with a bunch of two-foot tall Ewoks? That does not make sense! But more important, you have to ask yourself: What does this have to do with this case? Nothing. Ladies and gentlemen, it has nothing to do with this case! It does not make sense! Look at me. I'm a lawyer defending a major record company, and I'm talkin' about Chewbacca! Does that make sense? Ladies and gentlemen, I am not making any sense! None of this makes sense! And so you have to remember, when you're in that jury room deliberatin' and conjugatin' the Emancipation Proclamation, does it make sense? No! Ladies and gentlemen of this supposed jury, it does not make sense! If Chewbacca lives on Endor, you must acquit! The defense rests.