Non-Newtonian movement...

[jaer]

I don't like the fact that an elf that was supposed to be a quick character can't run half as fast as myself.

Just out of curiosity, how fast do you run in armor? How quickly can you accelerate after swinging a sword at some orcs for a while? Does having a shield strapped on one arm and an axe in the other hand mess up the fluidity of your movement or can you keep a clean sprinter's gait no matter what?

Perhaps we should compare you running with an elf wizard, since you probably don't wear armor. How does holding a staff affect your run? We should think "wand" being like a baton, so that shouldn't bother runners since people do relays. Though construction boots are a pain to run in, and more similar to what an adventure has on. Even wizardly robes would be far heavier, bulkier, and less wind resistant than most materials we where today. How fast do you run after casting a few spells?

 

[Pbartender]

I dunno... It always amused me that in 3rd Edition, something as supposedly fast as a dragon flies at less than 14 mph, when it isn't hustling or running.

Note that the average air speed velocity of an unladen swallow is roughly 24 miles per hour... About 210 ft., or 42 squares, in a six second round. We shall assume "cruising speed" means taking both it's standard and movement actions to move.

If the numbers for that study are accurate, the maximum speed for an unladen swallow is roughly 13-14 m/s. We'll call it 45 ft. (9 squares). That's about 31 mph, or 270 ft. (54 squares) in a round, and only 12 squares more than "cruising speed". If we use the 4E rules for running, that'd give us 46 squares per for a swallow running with both it's standard and move action, which equates to about 26 mph.

In other words, an unladen swallow -- European, for those paying attention -- has a movement of 21 squares, 42 if it hustles, and 46 to 54 squares (depending on whether you use the game rules or real life speeds for running) when it "runs".

 

[Surgoshan]

Does this crap really matter?
Not trying to drive-by or threadcrap, but what's the big frakkin deal, people?

Run granting a +2 speed boost is easy to implement and works FINE on a tactical scale. When you have elf and dwarf PCs running out of the context of a tactical encounter, are you really going to nickel and dime your PCs to death with this incredible waste of time? Are you really gonna ball-bust someone and strong-arm them into mathing out how far they are behind the elves after a certain, non-tactical amount of time running?

Well, the dwarf will have a higher constitution, so he'll be able to run longer. Tortoise and hare situation.

 

[Patlin]

Does this crap really matter?
Not trying to drive-by or threadcrap, but what's the big frakkin deal, people?

Run granting a +2 speed boost is easy to implement and works FINE on a tactical scale. When you have elf and dwarf PCs running out of the context of a tactical encounter, are you really going to nickel and dime your PCs to death with this incredible waste of time? Are you really gonna ball-bust someone and strong-arm them into mathing out how far they are behind the elves after a certain, non-tactical amount of time running?

Seriously, it's not rules like this that make a bad game, it's people who raise a mountain out of a molehill with no tangible purpose in sight.

Taking this in the spirit in which I believe it was intended, and taking it without offense, it only matters to the extent that you're interested in it. It's not crucially important, but if you like to do math (as I do) and if you're interested in the rules (as pretty much all of us are) it can be an entertaining conversation for the few moments it takes.

Personally, the main thing I drew from the math was a complete tangent: the idea that if you were to reduce the size of a square to 1 yard (or 1 meter, which is a convenient near parallell) you'd probably want to increase the number of squares each character can move. That'd add unnecessary complication.

 

[BASHMAN]

Two problems:
1- Running speed is too slow. Unless it works different out of combat, it makes no sense.
2- A dwarf running gains a 40% increase to his speed. An elf running gains a 28% increase to his speed.

Running is much better than in 3.5. It means that in a SINGLE MOVE ACTION you get to move an extra 2 squares. In 3.x it was like, a full round action to run-- you had to waste your whole turn on it. Double move in 3.x can still be done in 4E-- AND you can run for both those moves! In 4E, you can RUN as your move-- then CHARGE! I love that!

Dwarf double moves 10- Double move run is 14--
Elf double move is 14-- Double move run is 18--

Who cares-- Elves are faster than dwarves! If the issue is "Elf running is less of a bonus than dwarf running" remember that Dwarves are "natural born sprinters" to quote Gimli.

Note-- that the word "Run" is a misnomer-- because you are ALWAYS RUNNING when people are trying TO KILL YOU! The default movement should probably be called "run" and the extra fast move is "Sprint" so that people understand the difference.

Dwarf walking speed when maps & miniatures are not being used at all because it is a non-combat situation-- irrelevant # of squares b/c you don't care about squares when not in combat. If you ABSOLUTELY MUST determine the walking speed, assume it is 1-2 mile/hour.

Elf walking speed when maps & miniatures are not being used at all because it is a non-combat situation-- Irrelevant # of squares b/c you don't care about squares when not in combat. If you ABSOLUTELY MUST determine the walking speed, assume it is 1-2 mile/hour.

 

[kodyboy]

I think the +2 for running is a typo and it really should be x2.

 

[Pssthpok]

Taking this in the spirit in which I believe it was intended, and taking it without offense

Thank you for not taking it the wrong way.

It's not crucially important

I agree.

it can be an entertaining conversation for the few moments it takes.

As it may well be, but it certainly can't be cause for any alarm.

I'm not about to commit that fallacy of saying that 'if you don't like it, house-rule it', but all things being equal... it's really a meaningless concern. So long as it works the same way on both sides, there literally is no problem at all.

 

[Aust Diamondew]

From a simulationist stand point its possible to have a relatively slower running speed that walking speed and vice versa (4e) or for them to be proportional (3e), therefore they both fail at simulating reality.

That is,
Across all species or even all typical individuals of a given species the top running speed does not equal X times average walking speed (3e)or X times average walking speed+Y (4e), therefore 4e and 3e fail equally at simulating reality in this area (as do most games).