non switchers: what can wotc do to win you back?

[DaveMage]

I only regret we didn't see a revival of settings like Dark Sun, Planescape, and Birthright during the 3e era. I really would have been happy to see that.

Paizo did 3.5 Dark Sun in Dragon #319 (Player's Handbook) and Dungeon #110/Polyhedron (DM's Guide to Dark Sun), so you may want to check out those two issues if you haven't already.

 

[alleynbard]

Paizo did 3.5 Dark Sun in Dragon #319 (Player's Handbook) and Dungeon #110/Polyhedron (DM's Guide to Dark Sun), so you may want to check out those two issues if you haven't already.

I heard of them, but I have not seen them. They remain some of the last few issues I need to pick up. I have heard good and bad things about them. Not that it matters, honestly, because I am a "completist" and I will have those issues in my collection sooner or later.

Thanks for reminding me of those articles. I had nearly forgotten they existed.

 

[bastrak]

Minis and dungeons tiles are pretty much the extent of my WotC purchases these days.

That's me too.

 

[Belen]

That's a pretty important requirement. For me, they actually do publish one - SWSE. So I am a WotC customer... for one product line and that's it. And even then, there are things I'd prefer they did better (PDFs particularly).

I also play Saga, although the newer rules have started going the 4e route and that has turned me off. I generally do not like conditional rules and I am not a fan of encounter powers, although they seem to work well for Jedi force powers.

5e could bring me back to official D&D if the rules were decent.

The major thing that would earn them more of my money would be a Saga treatment for d20 Modern. If d20 Modern was revised to be like early Star Wars Saga Edition, then they would get a lot of my gaming dollars.

Saga is really a revised version of d20 Modern anyway, so it would not be that difficult to revise. I would welcome an updated d20 Modern.

 

[Janx]

I would say first that WotC making another edition of the game sooner (4.5 or 5e) would WORSEN the chances of me switching.

It's about stability of the edition, versus WotC grubbing for my money by revving the baseline of books.

I got 10 years out of my 2E books, and it had a 12 year run. When Player's option came out, I'd had about 5 years on 2e, before 2.5e effectively.

Compare that to a 3 year run for 3e until 3.5 (exact duration may not be precise).

Then 4e came out. That's a fast turn-cycle for me and my friends. Especially as a $90 investment (PH, DMG, MM)

Especially when the game isn't broken. 2e worked just fine for us. So did 2.5. So did 3e, and then 3.5e. Why am I upgrading? I don't use published settings or adventures. At most I use the core rules and the rules expansions. In 2x, I owned EVERY supplement that wasn't setting oriented. In 3x, I cut that down to just supplements related to what I was playing a PC for. In 3.5, I'm just playing core rules.

If WotC died, I'd not need to buy another product. I'm good to go.

If enough time passes, and Wotc isn't revving constantly, when 5e comes out, I might consider it. Much as many 1e players skipped 2e, and then bought into 3e.

The other variable about this is the availability of gaming tools. As long as I can get tools that support 3.5, I don't need to upgrade.

 

[Kafen]

Everytime I think of 4e or look at the crisp and barely used 4e books on my shelf, I feel sad.

Hmm, I have a similar feeling of sadness. Although, the conditions are a bit different. I loaned my 4e PHB out. And, I do not care a whole lot if I get it back. That's making me sad as I read your post. That's the highest level of apathy for me in regards to any edition...of any game to date.

 

[alleynbard]

Hmm, I have a similar feeling of sadness. Although, the conditions are a bit different. I loaned my 4e PHB out. And, I do not care a whole lot if I get it back. That's making me sad as I read your post. That's the highest level of apathy for me in regards to any edition...of any game to date.

I had the same thing going on. Someone borrowed my Arcane Power book and I barely knew it was gone. When they returned it, I was surprised to see it missing. I was so indifferent, I had forgotten I had loaned it out. That is a pretty significant indicator for me as well.

 

[The_Gneech]

It's a tough question to answer. I'm still "a customer" in that I buy almost every Saga Edition product; and I've made a conversion of Saga Edition for my fantasy games, since 4E's races and classes are so annoying for the most part.

1. Redo D&D to be more like Saga Edition -- classes should be a toolkit, not a straightjacket. Multiclassing should be quick, painless, and infinitely flexible. In Saga, you build your character to a concept -- take a bit of soldier and a bit of noble, and bang, you've got an officer. In 4E, you are your role (thanks a yahoo, WoW), and anything you try to do to escape your role is doing it wrong.
2. Fire the art director. Please, please, PLEASE get rid of all the flash-bang-noise, and get back to historical, classical, and other primary references, instead of the current cargo-cult-version of the fantasy genre.
3. Stop making everything its own rule. A 1st level 4E combat has more mods, tweaks, and conditions flying around than a 13th-level 3E one. I thought the point was to SIMPLIFY playing?
4. Of course, a print version of Dungeon magazine is required. But it has to support a good game first.
5. Stop shoving tieflings and dragonborn down my throat.
6. Talents are cool. Superpowers are not. If I wanted to play a superhero, I'd be playing Champions.
7. Embrace open standards. The OGL was a great thing. Go back to being "a part of the gaming community" instead of looking at the gaming community as "your customer base."
8. Un-screw-up gnomes. If you just don't get them, that's fine, leave them as they were and ignore them. Gnomes are an acquired taste. But don't screw 'em all up.
9. Lose the delve format. I'd like my modules in a single bound softcover, please. Similarly, lose the "encounter" mindset. An adventure should be more than a collection of rooms with monsters in them!
10. Did I mention to stop shoving tieflings and dragonborn down my throat?

Note: These opinions are mine alone. But you did ask.

-The Gneech

 

[Raven Crowking]

It's a tough question to answer. I'm still "a customer" in that I buy almost every Saga Edition product; and I've made a conversion of Saga Edition for my fantasy games, since 4E's races and classes are so annoying for the most part.

1. Redo D&D to be more like Saga Edition -- classes should be a toolkit, not a straightjacket. Multiclassing should be quick, painless, and infinitely flexible. In Saga, you build your character to a concept -- take a bit of soldier and a bit of noble, and bang, you've got an officer. In 4E, you are your role (thanks a yahoo, WoW), and anything you try to do to escape your role is doing it wrong.
2. Fire the art director. Please, please, PLEASE get rid of all the flash-bang-noise, and get back to historical, classical, and other primary references, instead of the current cargo-cult-version of the fantasy genre.
3. Stop making everything its own rule. A 1st level 4E combat has more mods, tweaks, and conditions flying around than a 13th-level 3E one. I thought the point was to SIMPLIFY playing?
4. Of course, a print version of Dungeon magazine is required. But it has to support a good game first.
5. Stop shoving tieflings and dragonborn down my throat.
6. Talents are cool. Superpowers are not. If I wanted to play a superhero, I'd be playing Champions.
7. Embrace open standards. The OGL was a great thing. Go back to being "a part of the gaming community" instead of looking at the gaming community as "your customer base."
8. Un-screw-up gnomes. If you just don't get them, that's fine, leave them as they were and ignore them. Gnomes are an acquired taste. But don't screw 'em all up.
9. Lose the delve format. I'd like my modules in a single bound softcover, please. Similarly, lose the "encounter" mindset. An adventure should be more than a collection of rooms with monsters in them!
10. Did I mention to stop shoving tieflings and dragonborn down my throat?

Note: These opinions are mine alone. But you did ask.

-The Gneech

I agree with you, up to the point where you say these opinions are yours alone.


RC

 

[resistor]

I think there's a distinction to be made between converting me back to a regular customer (almost impossible) versus getting me to buy one or two specific products.

As others have already said, I'm simply not very interested in the game they sell now, so the likelihood of my becoming a regular customer is essentially nil. However, one-off purchases are not out of the question; for example, I might buy the Dark Sun books if they're sufficiently fluffy/edition independent.