D&D (2024) Not loving weapon mastery with beginners

[Horwath]

As I said, it is not a lot of complexity, but you can't argue that it doesn't (in fact) add some.

My issue with your list of feat-suggestions is the power aspect, simply because I don't like a high-power game.

what high power game?
options that I gave are one of the weakest that you can take in 5E. GWF, SS, PAM? maybe? all more powerful.

In general people aren't, so hardly "everyone". Also, what is "simple" to you might not be simple to others. Even just deciding on what feature to take can later on be a point of regret because a player didn't anticipate which would be most useful, or were pressured by the DM or other players into a feature they didn't really want.

So, it isn't always a case of decision point that lasts a couple of seconds or even a minute.

and?
if someone does not like the feature give them option to replace it on next level up.
Or if they are stuck with it, it's also good, it's a learning point, next character will be better.

 

[Zardnaar]

Every individual's favored part of the game is obviously the reason for the game's part to them.

It's not my option but I can see why someone else has that view.

I don't dismiss their subjective opinion because it's not my preferred option.
It's virtually impossible for me to find a perfect game.

I would need to find 5 experienced players and a DM that wants to run a 3.5, 4E, SWSE scale of complexity while fixing the abuses of those types of system.

 

[Zardnaar]

what high power game?
options that I gave are one of the weakest that you can take in 5E. GWF, SS, PAM? maybe? all more powerful.


and?
if someone does not like the feature give them option to replace it on next level up.
Or if they are stuck with it, it's also good, it's a learning point, next character will be better.

They nerfed the worst offenders but buffed the power level over all of an already high powered game.

 

[Horwath]

They nerfed the worst offenders but buffed the power level over all of an already high powered game.

what exactly does it mean high powered? compared to what?
isn't it DMs choice to make is as high or low powered when designing encounters?

Is more options high powered or good design so you do not get bored?

 

[ezo]

But it's only a system that YOU want. What about all the players who don't want your three-tiered system? What do they get? They get stuck with the game you want WotC to make. Why is your game so special that the millions of dollars are spent making that game rather than someone else's?

That's the problem, and that's my point.

There's nothing to not want about it. They set the default at moderate, and have a simple, easy-to-follow system to make it easier to learn or more complex. You can pick and choose the parts you want at different levels to make the game you want to play.

If you "don't want to have to choose" then you are playing the default middle of the road.

My game is special because it would deliver on the promise WotC made of a modular game system.

That is my point.

 

[ezo]

what high power game?
options that I gave are one of the weakest that you can take in 5E. GWF, SS, PAM? maybe? all more powerful.

If you're giving out something that wasn't there before, like weapon masteries or feat to make up for not using weapon masteries, you are increasing the power of the game--making it a higher power game.

Is that really that difficult to grasp?

and?
if someone does not like the feature give them option to replace it on next level up.
Or if they are stuck with it, it's also good, it's a learning point, next character will be better.

All still more complexity than if there was never the choice in the first place.

To be clear, if you want more power and/or more complexity, have at it. And, as I've said a couple times now, the list of options you proposed is fine, and for me I would be happy with one or two in total, not two to begin with and two more later on--like you said.

They nerfed the worst offenders but buffed the power level over all of an already high powered game.

Yep. That pretty much covers it.

what exactly does it mean high powered? compared to what?

Compared to 2014--which is the baseline for 2024 when comparing power levels.

isn't it DMs choice to make is as high or low powered when designing encounters?

Sure, and so they can include or exclude whatever they want. They can then design encounters (even if more random like I do) to fit that power level as they see as appropriate.

Is more options high powered or good design so you do not get bored?

Depends on if you need more options high powered to stop you from becoming "bored"...

 

[Zardnaar]

what exactly does it mean high powered? compared to what?
isn't it DMs choice to make is as high or low powered when designing encounters?

Is more options high powered or good design so you do not get bored?

Compared to 2014 specifically and previous editions in general.

WotC more or less said 2024 was more super heroic.

It's very obvious when you play is side by side with older material vs nostalgia.

 

[Minigiant]

2024 is more powerful at Tier 1 than 2014 but less so at other Tiers.

The bigger issue is D&D traditionally attached complexity to flavor but people of every complexity preference liked all flavors.

Beginners and veterans like playing fighters. However there are no Simple, Advanced, and Complex weapon masteries.

 

[Distracted DM]

what exactly does it mean high powered? compared to what?
isn't it DMs choice to make is as high or low powered when designing encounters?

I think it's the system that determines it- largely how powerful are the provided monsters in comparison to the PCs.

How powerful is an ogre in comparison to a starting fighter? What about a fighter who has survived a couple dungeon delves?
Does it take one ogre to terrorize a village and be a challenge for a tier 1 party, or half a dozen?
Does a tier 2 party have any chance against a tier 4 monster? Will it be a surprising cakewalk?
How powerful are monsters in relation to PCs?

These things aren't determined by the DM, they are expectations set by the system. You can make your own monsters and modify existing ones, but that doesn't change the baseline- the ruler by which low-powered or high-powered are measured; for that, we have what is provided by the system.

 

[Horwath]

Depends on if you need more options high powered to stop you from becoming "bored"...

not high powered options but things to do in combat that are not roll d20, deal 11 damage. yes, very fun, cant wait for next turn, miss 0 damage, wait 20 minutes, deal 9 damage.

roleplay is a different thing.
my last rogue was Scout with 1 level of fighter(because ranger's suck and I wanted to play a "ranger").
exploration great, roleplay great, social skills great.
Combat; abysmally boring.
Take Aim, deal damage. Take Aim, deal damage. that is it. Sure sometimes there is some terrain to exploit, but really, your best move is always to Take Aim and deal damage, especially when you have Elven accuracy and sharpshooter.

Champion fighter; basic attacks levels 1-20. Especially if you do not take feats but just ASIs.


Battlemaster is good, runeknight also, purpledragon knight is even worse than champion, echo knight is great, EK? depends on how much you can force the DM and rest of the party for 5min work days..