Now is the season of our discontent?

[chobin foot]

D&D is great if you want to play D&D. This is my issue with D20 Modern, I suppose. It's just not far enough away from D&D for my tastes.

It's not that I don't like D&D, or that I don't like Wizards of the Coast. I just don't think that 3.0 ever really did it for me, and the move to 3.5 didn't make that any better.

A lot of people like 3.5, and I think it did do some things better than previous versions. I'm not sure that I like it as a vehicle to sell miniatures & maps... I don't like the quasi-requirement to play things out via maps & miniatures.

I think this is part of the thing where it becomes less fun for the Dungeon Master, and more like book keeping/accounting/bean counting rather than telling a story. It's not simply the bean counting of character creation (a lot of other systems have really wonky character rules)... it's also the bean counting of the conflict resolution.

If I wanted to just play "basic" 3.5e with the core mechanics, why not play a smoother basic game than D&D? There are other options out there, and just because it isn't D&D doesn't mean that it isn't inherently inferior, especially when it comes to D20/OGL... but you'll always have naysayers who think that if it isn't Wizards of the Coast, it isn't worth trying.

 

[Mycanid]

Hmm ... Ashrem ... you have something against New York?

[Hopes he gets the lame attempt at a pun. ]

 

[jdrakeh]

I'm giving some serious thought to switching over to RMSS or GURPS 4e here very quickly (as in tomorrow). Both require an amount of prep time similar to that which D&D 3.5 requires, though RMSS and GURPS cover multiple genres out of the box (GURPS especially; RMSS is set up to do multiple genres, though the actual genre-specific rules for this system are reserved for supplements).

Also, both GURPS and RMSS are 'front-loaded' system, meaning that the bulk of the work comes up front (usually during character creation) but that there is very little minutiae to track during actual play. D&D has an obscene amount of fiddly, situation-specific, modifers and rule systems to keep track of during play when compared to either GURPS or RMSS. This is the second reason that I'm considering making the switch.

Finally, due to the nature of GURPS and RMSS (both of which include a myriad of optional rules) I can get many kinds of actual play experiences out each, whereas D&D seems to play pretty much the same at all tables, using the RAW (IME).

 

[mhacdebhandia]

Personally, I don't understand people who play one single system, whether or not they change from one to another at any point. I question why anyone feels the need to declare that they intend to give up on a system for good; if I feel burned out with D&D, I might play GURPS or a World of Darkness game or Unknown Armies, or use an OGL system like True20 for my D&D-like games, and get back to D&D when I feel the urge to play it again . . .

. . . but to give up on any game so entirely and, frankly, dramatically? I don't see the point.

 

[Philotomy Jurament]

For me, 3E (to include 3.0 and 3.5) is a game that reads well, but doesn't play well. It just never worked out for me like I thought it was going to, and I found that it was too much work to run as the PC levels went up. Eventually, I realized that it just wasn't working out as my main game, so I started trying other systems (True20, C&C, Lejendary Adventure, Savage Worlds, etc). I settled on C&C for my main game, although I've also been having great fun/success with a Holmes/OD&D(1974) game. Running Call of Cthulhu and Mutants & Masterminds everyone once in a while. (Also enjoy a game of Arkham Horror or Fury of Dracula or Bonaparte at Marengo, among others.)

 

[TGryph]

What pushed me away? In a word - Feats. They just seemed to be a way to break the established, normal rules. In a little more detail, I hated that the characters were so much overpowered compared to the older editions that it seemed like I was playing a video game. It got to be WWAAAYY to much for me and my players to keep track of all the Special Abilities & Feats & stuff. And combat? Sheesh...didn't care for the increasing length of it.

I too switched to Gurps 4E three years ago and am much happier with my main game. I still play COC, WFRP II, and C&C on occasion, but 3.5...never again.

TGryph

 

[ColonelHardisson]

Personally, I don't understand people who play one single system, whether or not they change from one to another at any point. I question why anyone feels the need to declare that they intend to give up on a system for good; if I feel burned out with D&D, I might play GURPS or a World of Darkness game or Unknown Armies, or use an OGL system like True20 for my D&D-like games, and get back to D&D when I feel the urge to play it again . . .

. . . but to give up on any game so entirely and, frankly, dramatically? I don't see the point.

Neither do I. Over the years I've owned, and played, plenty of other games. I greatly prefer D&D, but variety is always good. Playing a different game occasionally helps prevent burnout. Plus, it also helps to do away with the mindset that one has to keep up with every new release for D&D or d20. Be choosy as a consumer. Buy only what you want, not what you feel you "need" to be with the in crowd.

 

[jdrakeh]

Personally, I don't understand people who play one single system. . .

Some of us have time-intensive day jobs, so having one system for everything makes actually finding time to play much more realistic (as we don't have to spend time learning a new system for different settings, premises, or genres that we'd like to get down with). For me, it's to obtain that kind of efficiency (and the freed up blocks of time that come with it) that I choose to consolidate my gaming under one cover.

 

[ColonelHardisson]

Some of us have time-intensive day jobs, so having one system for everything makes actually finding time to play much more realistic (as we don't have to spend time learning a new system for different settings, premises, or genres that we'd like to get down with). For me, it's to obtain that kind of efficiency (and the freed up blocks of time that come with it) that I choose to consolidate my gaming under one cover.

Normally I'm the first one to get behind a post like this. As one gets older, time and other gamers become increasingly scarce. However, it does help to switch it up a bit when gaming, preventing a sense of stagnation. I'd be surprised if any group can go an extended time playing only one RPG without getting burned out. Yeah, I know that any number of people will chime in with stories of how they've played the same game since dinosaurs roamed the Earth, but really? There was never a session where everyone felt like playing something else, maybe even a card or board game? That's kinda why I like generic systems like d20, GURPS, even TORG - they provide a way to have variety without having to learn an entirely new system

 

[jdrakeh]

However, it does help to switch it up a bit when gaming, preventing a sense of stagnation.

I have a contingency plan (namely a closet full of 'light' games such as BFRPG, Risus, A Hero's Banner, vs. Monsters, OVA, etc). Also, I'm working on OCRE (Overly Complex Risis Engine) a kind of fairly serious, high-lethality, low-fantasy, Risus variant with rules for weapons, armor, table-top movement, point-based magic, inherited traits, and skill atrophy (among other things). And, yes, I know that OCRE also stands for Optical Character Recognition Equipment