D&D 5E (2024) NPCs, and the poverty of the core books

[Chaltab]

It’s a +9 to hit so realistically you can half that number at the levels that an Archmage kicks in. It’s a versatile power but a well placed cone of cold could do more depending on the size of the party. It might vary with various protections and damage soaks.

Honestly I would be customizing my archmages, using the MM version as a base and applying my own theme.

This is true. Honestly I just kind of prefer the Legendary Archmage from @Nixlord's MME3 to either the 2014 or 2024 Archmages.

 

[ECMO3]

That has never been what balance is defined as in RPGs. In RPGs, balance has and will always mean a range of balance, not perfect balance.

Hence my original point, it is not that important that DMs don't know how to "balance" a monster.

 

[ECMO3]

Okay but you understand why a game with PVP balance (IE power parity with the outcome based entirely on skill & luck) is not the desired goal for a PVE game? Balance is relative.

Like those plastic birds that balance entirely on their beaks.

So balanced but not equal ..... yeah fine, but then all this talk about balancing enemies kind of goes out the window. As long as you don't make it so wildly OP that it slaughters the PCs outright you should be fine and well within this window.

When talking about these other definitions of balance, I need to point out in early D&D 1E/2E "hard" encounters were usually a TPK. Not some times, or not monsters that got good rolls, many encounters were designed to slaughter the PCs if they did not flee, negotiate or bypass combat some other way.

 

[DEFCON 1]

Fair enough for you, but I'm not willing to write off any inconsistency as a "game convention" that should be ignored for play. There's no reason that anything an NPC can accomplish can't be duplicated by an equivalent PC under similar circumstances. I simply don't want to play a game where that isn't true, so I don't. As much as possible for practical purposes, I want the rules to reflect the in-fiction reality of the world and everything in it. I strive for that goal in every world I make and every game I play.

Well, I see the game as completely full of these inconsistencies, so I can't get worked up about one more. I mean after all... look at almost every single magical trap or the dozens upon dozens of magical items that don't merely replicate a spell that appear in all the published adventures. Every single one of those traps and items do "creative" magical effects that are not a part of the PHB or appear in the DMG or MM. Where do all these special magical effects come from? How do they get made? Obviously not from any NPCs that have to work like PCs because these traps and magic items don't use any of the spells that appear in the PHB that a PC-like NPC would have access to. Rather, they are just purely magical effects of of a writer's or DM's invention and design created for the adventure at hand for the game. So if I'm going to handwave those away as just a part of the adventure game design, why would I not be willing to handwave any others? They are all the same. Merely created and used for the game.

 

[DEFCON 1]

How is all this more convenient than the NPCs just having the same spells than the PCs in the first place?

But they don't. So why get worked up about something that one cannot change? That's a waste of energy. Rather than spending time complaining that the mage NPC has a couple magical effects that aren't PHB spells, one would be better suited using those 90 seconds to just change the statblock to give them those spells if it mattered that much.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I am going to second @Micah Sweet on this one. I, as DM, enjoy world building first, time with my friends 2nd, and engaging adventures/campaigns 3rd. They are interrelated and I value all of them, but that is my personal order of enjoyment.

So I want my world to make sense as a world first and a game 2nd (as much as is reasonably possible and within my capability). Now, I don't think the PCs and NPCs have to follow the same rules 100% as long as they feel similar. So I don't mind if an NPC has a spell the PCs don't, to me that is expected in a living world. Could the PCs learn that spell, potentially. That is what downtime is for in my game.

I endorse everything in this message, point for point.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

But they don't. So why get worked up about something that one cannot change? That's a waste of energy. Rather than spending time complaining that the mage NPC has a couple magical effects that aren't PHB spells, one would be better suited using those 90 seconds to just change the statblock to give them those spells if it mattered that much.

But this is Oberone fallacy stuff. And more rules I need to rewrite, less incentive I have to buy the official rules in the first place.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I agree with this in general but I do have to wonder about the long-term effects to both game and lore of the specific implementation. Arcane Burst as depicted in the monster manual is an absurdly powerful ability compared to any PC-facing at-will power, able to do 108 damage a round without crits when used by an Archmage. How do you scale that for a PC?

One of the reasons I don't like it just from a game perspective is that spamming it often just feels like the 'correct' answer for the mage tactically.

My answer is to not give that ability to anyone, PC or NPC, and replace with appropriate abilities/spell either could conceivably acquire.

 

[Swarmkeeper]

I wonder if folks who insist that PCs should have access to any abilities or spells available to NPCs also play that all enemy NPCs get death saves in combat, just like the PCs?

 

[Micah Sweet]

Well, I see the game as completely full of these inconsistencies, so I can't get worked up about one more. I mean after all... look at almost every single magical trap or the dozens upon dozens of magical items that don't merely replicate a spell that appear in all the published adventures. Every single one of those traps and items do "creative" magical effects that are not a part of the PHB or appear in the DMG or MM. Where do all these special magical effects come from? How do they get made? Obviously not from any NPCs that have to work like PCs because these traps and magic items don't use any of the spells that appear in the PHB that a PC-like NPC would have access to. Rather, they are just purely magical effects of of a writer's or DM's invention and design created for the adventure at hand for the game. So if I'm going to handwave those away as just a part of the adventure game design, why would I not be willing to handwave any others? They are all the same. Merely created and used for the game.

My answer is not to handwave them away, but to have the ability in-setting to create such effects.