Odd Peeves [2002 Thread]

[gizmo33]

Oops - maybe if undead were impossible there would be no such thing as thread necromancy.

 

[Brimshack]

So, I guess I am violating the conservation of energy?

...I'm a bad man.

 

[Brimshack]

I think playing a character with some disabilities can be a lot of fun, but I also do agree people can take it overboard. Unless your playing a completely social game, I don't want to play with a guy whose just a lump character in combat.

Take for example this difference:

1) I'm playing a blind guy. I miss all the time, slow down the party with my crap speed, can't keep a watch, etc.

2) I'm playing a blind guy. But I took blindfight and blindsense 5' (3.0 feat, don't know if its still around). I also worked with the DM to have permanent see invisibility (took a portion of the charcter's starting wealth to "buy" the ability). So I'm good in combat if I can get close, and my party is always aware of invisible creatures. The dm also lets me give everyone a +2 to fear saves around me (if you see a blind guy fighting, how scary could it be?)

Basically its a matter of if you want to play a "weak" character that's fine, but you should try hard to make the character effective to the group, just in a completely different way then they are used to.

I think big problems can make thing a lot more interesting, providing they are coupled with big benefits. Played a blind Cleric and a blind Bard myself. Both got decent spell casting benefits and it was fun plotting around the weakness. We had to get others back to them to the cleric to cure. She was a giant, so there were a couple great instances of people calling out range and direction with her stone throwing ability. The bard was just fun, made him an old bluesman ...okay, that might be a little over the top for some, but we were all laughing every game. But of course a bard can geneerate lots of benefits without seeing anyone.

 

[Kristivas]

I also find it annoying that people need to make odd and often debilitating race/class combos just to be 'interesting'. Many times, I've played all sorts of characters that other people found to be not only interesting, but a fine addition to the party.


In a Forgotten Realms/Ravenloft game: A LE Human Rogue. He was the brother of another of the characters (CG fighter). The game started with the Lord the party worked for assigned to take my character to a prison for his crimes. This prison was out of the city and out of the way, due to the dangerous nature of the criminals it kept.

My character was inexplicably evil, and he and his brother never could see eye-to-eye on anything.. except they cared about each other. He also had a grudging respect for the rest of the party because they'd all grown up together. Still, he was a cold murderer. When someone would steal from the party, he'd kill them. When someone insulted him, he'd kill them. If someone did something against his brother, he'd kill them even more.

They ended up on a side-quest that lead them away from the prison and on to adventuring glory. An evil character in a good party, you ask? Surely a recipe for disaster and backstabbing.

But, it turned out to be an AWESOME game. At first, the group just tried to convert him. When they ended up in Ravenloft, it turned into a "use evil to fight evil" thing.


At first, when we started that game, the other players were aghast. They'd seen me play evil characters before, and just assumed all of their characters would be murdered in their sleep with everything but their loin cloths stolen. After we talked and I agreed that I wouldn't be doing any of that nonsense (unless someone else started it, of course), they warily agreed. To this day, we still talk about that game and how awesome that character was.

I'm sure some of you would disagree, and probably find that as annoying as I do a Half-Orc Bard or a Runner. To each their own, I suppose.. but if everyone playing is having fun, then I would say that's success.. no matter what you roll up.

 

[Brimshack]

My character was inexplicably evil, and he and his brother never could see eye-to-eye on anything.. except they cared about each other. He also had a grudging respect for the rest of the party because they'd all grown up together. Still, he was a cold murderer. When someone would steal from the party, he'd kill them. When someone insulted him, he'd kill them. If someone did something against his brother, he'd kill them even more..

Now that's my kinda evil. I don't know why so many seem to assume evil characters can't have string personal attachements or care about others. Some of the worst people in history seem to have had their soft spots. And I do think there is a kind of assymetry to the morality thing. A character doesn't become good because he feeds one begger. Should he kill one begger for no clear reason though, that pretty well makes him evil in my book. Anyway, I've played the loyal-but-cruel character a few times myself. It's an interesting angle to pursue.

Which reminds me, I wish I had a nickel for ever supposedly good character that acted with so little forethought restrain or other redeeming virtue that he sidetracked the party over and over again. I honestly think a lot of players tend toward chaotic evil in their play no matter what alignment they declare. It's like the whole thing is such a wish-fulfillment fantasy to them that they loose all sense of what even an evil character would think about before acting. Sometimes I think the unthinkability of a PC with evil alignment in some worlds makes players just that much fuzzier in their thinking about the subject.

 

[Chimera]

Heh - I was at a Con this weekend and MY peeves weren't with the games, but rather the rampant poor hyeine, the guys who wore the same clothing ALL WEEKEND LONG, and too many people in jester's caps...

Gencon 2001. Last Con I went to.

Thursday: 3 slightly attractive young women in Sailor Moon outfits. Yum.

Friday: Same girls, same outfits. Um?

Saturday: Repeat, definitely without any 'wash, rinse'. Eeeewwwww!

Sunday: Three much less than clean young women in filthy Sailor Moon outfits.
(run screaming)

"From now on, I'm calling you Princess Less-than-Fresh".

 

[Dragonbait]

Since this is such an old thread, I'll skip quoting some of the old posts.
Anyways, I have no problem with the half-orc bard type of characters. I have no problem when a play wants to play an elf raised in dwarven society. They are unconventional and unusual for their race. They go against the norm. What irks me is when they become the norm. I like to see people playing fantasy racial stereotypes sometimes because it makes the oddballs more unique. What's wrong with playing a dwarven fighter that weilds an axe as a weapon? Why does it have to always be something new and different? I like the unusual, and I like the conventional. The unusual only remains unusual when it is not played often.

And jumping to something someone else said at some point somewhere. The characters made to shock other people (a half-orc bard, gasp!) work only as one-shots. The real question is: Can a character that was made to be unusual (less than optimized race/class combos, odd personalities, and so on) or funny (silly personalities, or races) become a fully-developed character? It can work. I've seen it done, and it's awesome when it happens, but it takes a lot of forethought.

 

[Kristivas]

Even if you add a small twist to a stereotypical character, a lot of great role playing and character development can spring from it.

Example: A Dwarven Fighter weilding an axe (like the fellow above mentioned). Yes, he speaks like Breunor from the Drizzt books, yes he's tough as all hell, yes he hates goblins, and yes he's stern with typical "Dwarven wit". The 'twist'. He's 100% against drinking. Say, his Father used to get drunk and be heavy with the hands.. so this Dwarf, rather than blaming his Father, blamed the booze.

Toss something like that on what people call "the same old, same old" and you can still come up with some interesting stuff.


Brimshack,
That's my kinda evil too. Not everyone with an evil alignment has to be rampant killing machines who loot, plunder, rape, pillage, and kick babies. They CAN be loyal, and they CAN be cooperative. As long as the rest of the group can accept some of the things they do (not necissarily all of it), you can play a real interesting game.

The fact that people stereotype that evil has to all be selfish, cruel, and downright horrible is annoying. Take the Assassin from Serenity. He knew he was an evil monster, but he was working for a better world.

 

[pawsplay]

What's wrong with a half-orc bard? His Cha may be sub-par, but he still has a decent strength and darkvision.

 

[Will]

I had a bard/barbarian orc character (not half-orc...) in a game, once. Was working toward warsinger...

I often think bards have a lot of flexibility of interpretation that people don't adequately grasp. A bard can be a shining leader (I'm playing a paladin-bard currently), or a fop, or a storyteller, or a spy.

In this case, I had just watched LotR for the fourth time and was struck by all the foot-pounding, war-drumming from the orcs.

As it was, my character had a huge maul, savage attitude, and smacked with great abandon. She was also a lore-keeper, with ancient tales of her people. IN battle? She would rouse herself and others to furious action with screams and taunts.