Odd question about Hydras in their element....

Bagpuss

Legend
A hydra is fighting the party at the end of a lake.

It sinks so that it's body is in the water and it's heads out to bite and snap at the party.

Useful bit from the SRD: Targeted magical effects cannot sever a hydra’s heads (and thus must be directed at the body) unless they deal slashing damage and could be used to make sunder attempts. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/hydra.htm )

The wizard casts a fireball at the hydra. What happens?

a) The damage the fireball does is subtracted from the body hit points. - As the fireball cannot sever the hydra's heads its damage is directed at the body hit points.
b) The damage the fireball does is subtracted from the head hit points. - As the fireball is not targeted but an area of effect it deals damage to the heads.
c) The fireball does no damage because it can't target the body, as fire spells are stopped by the surface of the water. - As (a) but because the body is below water the body can't take damage.

Please back up your answers with logic, common sense or rules.
 
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Bagpuss said:
A hydra is fighting the party at the end of a lake.

It sinks so that it's body is in the water and it's heads out to bite and snap at the party.
A or C, all things dependant on how you read the 'attacks from land' part of ther aquatic rules and how the combat grid behaves in 3-D.

Attacks from Land said:
Characters swimming, floating, or treading water on the surface, or wading in water at least chest deep, have improved cover (+8 bonus to AC, +4 bonus on Reflex saves) from opponents on land. Landbound opponents who have freedom of movement effects ignore this cover when making melee attacks against targets in the water. A completely submerged creature has total cover against opponents on land unless those opponents have freedom of movement effects. Magical effects are unaffected except for those that require attack rolls (which are treated like any other effects) and fire effects.
 

The plane of water is why I'm mentioning a fireball rather than something like a lightening bolt, which wouldn't raise this problem.

Yeah our group is currently arguing between A and C.

Option C gives all hydra's limited immunity to virtually all forms of damage, they could stick their heads in a vat of acid, and because it can't sunder them they are fine.
 

Bagpuss said:
Option C gives all hydra's limited immunity to virtually all forms of damage, they could stick their heads in a vat of acid, and because it can't sunder them they are fine.
If the thing is sticking it's heads IN acid, then they get sizzled off. The area effects affect the body only is there to model combat againt the critter, not grant the heads cart blanch immunity to common sence.

hydratdc6.gif


If you meant the hydra's 3x3x3 squares were all submerged and the hydra was suffering a -4 to hit due to cover from what ever the PCs were standing on, then A, the fireball does not harm it. This also means the hydra would not have been able to take AoOs on anyone.

If you meant the hydra's 3x3x3 squares were 66% submerged and the hydra was suffering no penalties to hit due to cover from what ever the PCs were standing on, then C, the fireball does harm it. I DO reccomend the hydra get improved cover from said fireball.
 
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So in the left hand example, it sticks its head out briefly to attack, the fireball detonates above water so doesn't effect it because the whole hydra is effectively below water even though it can attack above water. This means the creatures on land have cover from it however and that it doesn't threaten them.

In the right hand example, it is still exposed on the surface, it can attack without penalty and threaten, but is also vulnerable to the fireball as it is above the surface, but it does gain cover from people on land and the fireball so have a better chance of saving.

What are you using to create the example images by the way?
 


Why wouldn't the answer be B?

A fireball is not a targeted magical effect. It has an area of effect. If the hydra's heads are in the area of effect, they should take the damage.

It isn't like hydras are immune to fire.

-Stuart
 

szilard said:
Why wouldn't the answer be B?

A fireball is not a targeted magical effect. It has an area of effect. If the hydra's heads are in the area of effect, they should take the damage.

It isn't like hydras are immune to fire.

-Stuart
The heads are not seperate creatures. They can be attacked like an object ala the Sunder rules so the classic "chopping of the hydra's heads" tactic can be used on them. Area effects deal damage to the body, with the bonus of searing stumps if the element is the correct one to do so. A fireball does not individually damage each hydra head any more than the fireball damages each item a victim carries.

To damage a head, the onus is on the attacker to make a sunder attempt. This means a spellcaster has a VERY hard time of doing so.

A hydra can be killed either by severing all its heads or by slaying its body. To sever a head, an opponent must make a successful sunder attempt with a slashing weapon. (The player should declare where the attack is aimed before making the attack roll.) Making a sunder attempt provokes an attack of opportunity unless the foe has the Improved Sunder feat. An opponent can strike at a hydra’s heads from any position in which he could strike at the hydra itself, because the hydra’s head writhe and whip about in combat. An opponent can ready an action to attempt to sunder a hydra’s head when the creature bites at him. Each of a hydra’s heads has hit points equal to the creature’s full normal hit point total, divided by its original number of heads. Losing a head deals damage to the body equal to half the head’s full normal hit points. A natural reflex seals the neck shut to prevent further blood loss. A hydra can no longer attack with a severed head but takes no other penalties.

Each time a head is severed, two new heads spring from the stump in 1d4 rounds. A hydra can never have more than twice its original number of heads at any one time, and any extra heads it gains beyond its original number wither and die within a day. To prevent a severed head from growing back into two heads, at least 5 points of fire or acid damage must be dealt to the stump (a touch attack to hit) before the new heads appear. A flaming weapon (or similar effect) deals its energy damage to the stump in the same blow in which a head is severed. Fire or acid damage from an area effect may burn multiple stumps in addition to dealing damage to the hydra’s body. A hydra does not die from losing its heads until all its heads have been cut off and the stumps seared by fire or acid.

A hydra’s body can be slain just like any other creature’s, but hydras possess fast healing (see below) and are difficult to defeat in this fashion. Any attack that is not (or cannot be) an attempt to sunder a head affects the body.

Targeted magical effects cannot sever a hydra’s heads (and thus must be directed at the body) unless they deal slashing damage and could be used to make sunder attempts.
 



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