OFFICAL ERRATA: Hit points *DO NOT* change in polymorph

[Planesdragon]

My point is that had this language (retain your hit points) been present in the original version of the polymorph spell (instead of it being incorporated by refernce from alter self), nobody would ever have brought up the idea of changing it due to a change in constitution. Why can I be so sure of it? BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT OCCURRED IN 3.0! 3.0 stated that you changed constitution, but kept your hit points. Except for the occasional newbie that failed to see the explicit line regarding hit points not changing, nobody questiones it.

Actually...

1. I was of the opinion that the rule was annoying back in 3.0, too.--and, as such, I "house ruled" it.
2. They removed the line in 3.5.
3. "Hmm. Hey, looks like that house rule of mine, like so many others, was incorporated into the change."

So, either they're incompetent in the WotC offices, or they wanted to change the way it works. Actually, strike that. There's no excuse, change in rule or not, for the bad wording in the polymorph spell.

 

[jgsugden]

So, either they're incompetent in the WotC offices, or they wanted to change the way it works. Actually, strike that. There's no excuse, change in rule or not, for the bad wording in the polymorph spell.

I fully agree that the wording was horrible. Incorporating the text of another spell while simultaneously overriding a portion of that incorporated text was a poor choice, especially for a spell that has historically been very confusing.

 

[anon]

Rule Summary

When Polymorphed or Wildshaped into a creature with a Con score that is different from your normal Con score, the new Con score is used for the following:

• Fortitude Saves
• Skill checks
• Starvation/Thrist/Suffocation/Drowning checks
• Any other Con-based check

Use your original Con score for:

• HPs

If you take Con damage/drain apply the damage/drain to both scores (ie it affects everything).


Is this an accurate summary?

 

[Will]

As someone who has been thinking Wild Shape is a bit too powerful, I'm happy for this errata. Yes, the 'polymorph is alter self +' suggests that the alter self language (hit points retained) is passed on, but it's such a break from how Con change normally works that having strong language on the subject helps immensely.

I've been wrestling with the power of Shapechange, and this at least helps a bit.

 

[Philip]

In the first case, you take the downside of CON loss, but not the full upside of CON gain. In the second case, you all but neuter physical attribute loss to a high level wildshaper/polymorpher. What are peoples' thoughts? Have I missed something?

I missed something myself. How is standing at CON 10 opposed to CON 1 with the same hit points a downside? The first PC would probably not be killed by the secondary CON damage, the second PC would. You might not get the FULL advantage, but it remains an advantage to have more CON than your original.

Edit for spelling.

 

[rangerjohn]

Well I'm confused what the spell is for now. Affecting ac? It's not for transportation or disguise, low duration. It's not for beefing during combat, no hp change. What is it for? The only use I see for is if your unarmed you can change into a bear and die for lack of hps.

 

[jgsugden]

Well I'm confused what the spell is for now. Affecting ac? It's not for transportation or disguise, low duration. It's not for beefing during combat, no hp change. What is it for? The only use I see for is if your unarmed you can change into a bear and die for lack of hps.

Here are a few uses that I came up with in 60 seconds:

1.) Gain reach.
2.) Gain improved grab/constrict/etc ... and other special attacks.
3.) Disguise oneself.
4.) Increase movement for short durations.
5.) Flight.
6.) Underwater action.
7.) Gain traits of the form such as low-light vision (animals) or immunity to poison (plants) [Note - this issue is still not 100% clear, but the designer, Andy Collins, is on the record as saying that you gain extraordinary type traits of the form via polymorph]
8.) Healing (my sorcerer certainly enjoys this aspect).
9.) Increasing strength without using an enhancement bonus.

 

[rangerjohn]

Here are a few uses that I came up with in 60 seconds:

1.) Gain reach.
2.) Gain improved grab/constrict/etc ... and other special attacks.
3.) Disguise oneself.
4.) Increase movement for short durations.
5.) Flight.
6.) Underwater action.
7.) Gain traits of the form such as low-light vision (animals) or immunity to poison (plants) [Note - this issue is still not 100% clear, but the designer, Andy Collins, is on the record as saying that you gain extraordinary type traits of the form via polymorph]
8.) Healing (my sorcerer certainly enjoys this aspect).
9.) Increasing strength without using an enhancement bonus.

1. For one combat and your not likely to hit.
2. As above.
3. For extremely short duration, 20 minutes at 20th level. That's not very long in social situations.
4. Agreed, Hope you don't need to go far.
5. As 4.
6. As 4, and you really better not be going far.
7. As you said this is highly debated.
8. Now this is still useful.
9. Still probably won't hit with a sorcerer/wizards bab, and melee is extremely dangerous for such a character and once again that's one combat for a fourth level buff.

10. Now if you could give all these benefits to the party tank, it might be worth it. But you can't.

 

[Gansk]

10. Now if you could give all these benefits to the party tank, it might be worth it. But you can't.

You can polymorph anybody you want - it's living creature touched.
Obviously wild shape is different.

 

[rangerjohn]

So it looks like the best use for the spell is the wizard making a wand for a ranger. Higher bab and hps.