OFFICAL ERRATA: Hit points *DO NOT* change in polymorph

[glass]

There is a precedent for hit points being absolutely independent of the Con score of a creature.

A wizard/sorceror's familiar has half of the wizard/sorceror's hit points, rounded down. The familiar could have a con of 1 or 20, but that won't change the familiar's hit points.

Thus, it seems quite possible that a polymorph spell also does not change hit points, regardless of whether the con of the new form is 1 or 20.

Oh, someone beat me to it by 3 pages

I really must get out of the habit of replying as I read. Trouble is, if you read to the end, it is hard to find the posts I wanted to reply to again.

Sorry guys.


glass.

 

[mikebr99]

I agree... your BASE hps score shouldn't change... but the new modifier from getting a new CON may change the current total hps, that and the healing you get from changing shape.


Mike

 

[jgsugden]

IIRC what he answered was something like "sure - whatever - I don't care" (paraphrasing ).

Since both the abilities you mentioned are extraordinary special qualities, you do not get them with polymorph.

Incorrect:

To summarize, it seems that:

Druids in animal form via wildshape gain the animal traits of low-light vision, proficiency with natural weapons, the need to eat, the need to sleep and the need to breathe. They also gain all extraordinary attacks of the specific animal form.

Druids in plant form via wildshape gain low-light vision, immunity to mind-affecting effects, immunity to poison, immunity to sleep effects, immunity to paralysis, immunity to polymorph, immunity to stunning, immunity to critical hits/sneak attacks, proficiency with natural weapons, the ability to avoid sleeping, the need to eat, and the need to breathe. They also gain all the extraordinary attacks of the specific plant creature.

Looks right at a glance.

Andy Collins
Senior Designer
Wizards of the Coast Roleplaying R&D

http://pub36.ezboard.com/fgameschat19968frm12.showMessage?topicID=214.topic

 

[jgsugden]

What I don't get about this discussion is that in 3.0 (under all the various systems for polymorph), hit points did not change. Everybody knew it. Everybody accepted it. It caused a few problems regarding con damage (which remain in 3.5, but can be easily handled by saying that con changes for all purposes other than hit points, so a reduction in con with regards to hit points uses your normal con score), but in general, it was not seen as a major problem.

Now, when it has been clarified that 3.5 works in the same way, people are suddenly up in arms as if the spell has been rendered completely useless.

I speak from extensive first hand experience as a DM and a player who has used polymorph and wildshape *exactly* as the 3.5 DMG errata indicates since 3.5 was released: It works. There are other unbalanced aspects to polymorph, but keeping hit points unchanged doesn't cause any problems. In fact, it prevents a lot of min/maxing issues, especially for druids.

If you have not played with hit points not changing, try it for a few sessions. If it causes problems, discuss a house rule with your DM to resolve the issue. But, in my experience, the correct rule works well.

 

[Deset Gled]

And what point would this be exactly? Since the Ranger doesn't have polymorph on his spell list any more?

The ranger doesn't have it on his spell list, but he can still use any wand if he puts a little bit of effort into it. UMD is now accessible to every class.

 

[mikebr99]

The ranger doesn't have it on his spell list, but he can still use any wand if he puts a little bit of effort into it. UMD is now accessible to every class.

I think your definition of "a little bit of effort" is a little skewed... DC20, as a cross class...

YMMV


Mike

 

[Kershek]

I speak from extensive first hand experience as a DM and a player who has used polymorph and wildshape *exactly* as the 3.5 DMG errata indicates since 3.5 was released: It works. There are other unbalanced aspects to polymorph, but keeping hit points unchanged doesn't cause any problems. In fact, it prevents a lot of min/maxing issues, especially for druids.

Unfortunately, for druids with high con scores who want to wildshape to creatures that have a low con (scouting, snooping, etc.), it presents a serious risk to con damage even though their original form would be able to take it in stride.

 

[jgsugden]

Unfortunately, for druids with high con scores who want to wildshape to creatures that have a low con (scouting, snooping, etc.), it presents a serious risk to con damage even though their original form would be able to take it in stride.

Hours I've spent roleplaying since 3.0 came out: Roughly 1600.

Times I've seen con damage kill a PC: 1 (A barbarian with a really high con that thought he could handle a next of wyverns on his own).

Rare circumstances do not create serious problems.

Besides, this has nothing to do with the errata. Regardless of whether you changed hit points or not prior to this errata, if you polymorphed into a form with a con of 10 and then took 12 points of con damage, you die.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Unfortunately, for druids with high con scores who want to wildshape to creatures that have a low con...

Apart from elves, there are no creatures with low Con.

"Average" is as low as it gets.

-Hyp.

 

[jgsugden]

Apart from elves, there are no creatures with low Con.

"Average" is as low as it gets.

-Hyp.

I've always found that funny ... elves are the sickliest creature in the game. No wonder they're dying off in so many campaign settings ...