Official responses to 1 min/level Buff spells

[Nephet]

1 min/level is fine if you know you are about to fight the BBEG - but who knows that? When I DM, my players rarely have a chance to pre-buff for an encounter with the BBEG. If they spend their first few actions buffing, they'll be toast. These spells will not be taken except in the rare circumstance when the PCs can predict the encounter to within a few minutes.

 

[LokiDR]

With the haste change, the speed of combat is going to be slower. If you don't like the 1 min/level stat buffs, you must never use any short term buffs.

 

[Shard O'Glase]

short term buffs should have pwoerful effects if they don't they shouldn't be used. The new haste I may use at low elvels if we have enough fighter types in the party, otherwise heck no. The new buffs well only if I'm feeling dumber than usual, bless generally not but hey its only 1st level its not terrible at low levels, and at high level its not terrible if you just want to do something other than twiddle your thumbs in a fight that you'll eaily win.

Shield is a nice solid one, MM immunity and a solid enough boost to AC that its worthwhile.

Divine favor scales well so its a great benefit at most levels past the low.

If there weaker than either of those and the animal buffs substantially are than its not worth the time to cast these spells.

 

[splitinfinitude]

Without getting into whether I like the change or not, overall IMO it does add to the choices. 1hr/lvl meant that was the just about the only 2nd level spell a wizard or sorcerer cast in every campaign I've ever been in, which meant there were no choices re 2nd level spells, just a choice of which buff was more important. Mirror image, web, and alter self were sometimes used, but not very much, and once in a blue moon something else was used. Same with clerics, they were buffcasters by and large. Actually, for sorcerers, except for mirror image and web, I never saw one learn a 2nd level spell exc. for buffs.

There also was no "choice" re stat buff items. You were foolish if you bought one instead of getting a big-ass sword or something, and let the spells be used instead. So, unless you felt some compulsion for idiocy, you wouldn't waste money on stat items. The "choice" boiled down to foolishly wasting resources, or spending wisely. Much like you can "choose" to play a wizard with a 10 intelligence, if you want.

 

[Shard O'Glase]

Without getting into whether I like the change or not, overall IMO it does add to the choices. 1hr/lvl meant that was the just about the only 2nd level spell a wizard or sorcerer cast in every campaign I've ever been in, which meant there were no choices re 2nd level spells, just a choice of which buff was more important. Mirror image, web, and alter self were sometimes used, but not very much, and once in a blue moon something else was used. Same with clerics, they were buffcasters by and large. Actually, for sorcerers, except for mirror image and web, I never saw one learn a 2nd level spell exc. for buffs.

There also was no "choice" re stat buff items. You were foolish if you bought one instead of getting a big-ass sword or something, and let the spells be used instead. So, unless you felt some compulsion for idiocy, you wouldn't waste money on stat items. The "choice" boiled down to foolishly wasting resources, or spending wisely. Much like you can "choose" to play a wizard with a 10 intelligence, if you want.

Unless of course you played in a world with dispel magic. In that case once you got past the mid levels right about where 2nd level spells should lose some effect, you'd be foolish to rely upon a spell when a small portion of your income could go to a item.

 

[LokiDR]

Unless of course you played in a world with dispel magic. In that case once you got past the mid levels right about where 2nd level spells should lose some effect, you'd be foolish to rely upon a spell when a small portion of your income could go to a item.

Every other encounter has a cleric, wizard, or sorcerer casting dispel magic. Oh ya, that's variety.

 

[LokiDR]

[double post]

 

[Shard O'Glase]

ah yes I said every other encounter. Righto.

and besides ther's always druids and bards if you want to add variety.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

I think Andy's reasoning regarding 1 hr/lvl buffing spells is very solid. Any spell that the PCs are using "all the time" is crowding out class abilities.

I do think that 1 min/lvl is too short. They become very weak spells relative to other short duration spells. If the PCs don't have very obvious clues that a big fight is coming, spellcasters are almost never going to get more than one buff spell off before they are in the middle of it.

I think the buff spells should be 10 min/lvl.

 

[Demise]

Every other encounter has a cleric, wizard, or sorcerer casting dispel magic. Oh ya, that's variety.

As much variety as every adventuring party always having Bull Strength on the fighter types, no?