OGC Speak Language alternates?

[JBowtie]

Wierd Wars 2 changes the speak languages skill so that your proficiency is based on the number of ranks.

I notice in skimming the boards that this seems to be a popular technique. To me, it just doesn't seem to add much, sort of a veneer over the current situation without much depth.

I mean, just looking at the list you gave, what I'm really seeing are tasks, things a character with the skill wants to accomplish. For every other skill, that's modelled by setting a DC for the desired outcome.

I guess one of the things that really bugs me is that SL simply doesn't work like the other skills. It's not elegant, and on top of that bears no relation to reality (which eventually makes suspension of disbelief harder).

So I think I might just start with what I've scribbled above and see if I can improve on that. Another feat, a few modifiers, and a consideration of the impact on adventure design and I'll probably have what I want. I'll share it here if anyone is interested.

 

[Aaron2]

I mean, just looking at the list you gave, what I'm really seeing are tasks, things a character with the skill wants to accomplish. For every other skill, that's modelled by setting a DC for the desired outcome.

The problem is that a single language isn't worth a large number of skill points to make any high DC. 1 rank per language (like the RAW) is probably too low. 2-3 sounds more like it. Another thing, do you really want to make a Speak Common check every round that you have a conversation?


Aaron

 

[elrobey]

This is my house rule. You are welcome to give it a try:

SPEAK LANGUAGE (INT; TRAINED ONLY)
You can communicate in a spoken language. You may communicate in several spoken languages and have separate ranks in each one. Words in a language are categorized by number of syllables in the English-language equivalent.

The complexity of the words you automatically understand is determined by your ranks in the language:

1 rank: 1-syllable words ("how much does this cost? Which way to the inn?")
2 ranks: 2-syllable words
3 ranks: 3-syllable words
4 ranks: 4-syllable words, and so on.

This assumes the words are layman’s words, used every day in a straightforward sense; that is, any fluent adult can be expected to know them. When a word is not a layman’s word, is not an everyday word, or is not being used in a straightforward sense, treat it as if it were longer by 1 or more syllables.

In addition to words you automatically understand, you have a chance to understand a word of the next higher rank, in context, on a case-by-case basis, by making a Speak Language check against DC 15. This works like a normal skill check: Roll d20 and add your ranks, your Int modifier, and any synergy bonus that might apply.

At 4 ranks, you are considered fluent.

You receive 4 ranks in your native language for free.

 

[elrobey]

Giving an impassioned speech, by the way, sounds like Perform(Voice), or perhaps Diplomacy, not Speak Language. Whichever one you choose to use in that case, your ranks in the others could provide a synergy bonus.

 

[Suldulin]

kingdoms of kalamar has a good speak language/read&write varient, don't know if it's OGL or not though

 

[JBowtie]

kingdoms of kalamar has a good speak language/read&write varient, don't know if it's OGL or not though

It's not. Kingdoms of Kalamar material, like all officially licensed D&D material, is closed content. I'm specifically looking for open content as I will publish my campaign setting in the not too-distant future (sometime before 4E ships).

 

[JBowtie]

Giving an impassioned speech, by the way, sounds like Perform(Voice), or perhaps Diplomacy, not Speak Language. Whichever one you choose to use in that case, your ranks in the others could provide a synergy bonus.

Perform (oratory), actually, which is Charisma based. If you're not fluent, I would probably require a Speak Language check to see what the audience gets out of it. "Ich bin ein Berliner" being a good example of someone very good at oratory narrowly failing his Speak Language check. The crowd reacted favorably to the delivery of the speech, but probably went away slightly amused.

The problem is that a single language isn't worth a large number of skill points to make any high DC. 1 rank per language (like the RAW) is probably too low. 2-3 sounds more like it.

I'd say that's a symptom of how the skill is defined. If Knowledge checks were defined the same way, nobody would take more than 1 rank per knowledge skill. Change the definition, and adventure designers can actually produce situations that make it worthwhile to invest in a single language.

Another thing, do you really want to make a Speak Common check every round that you have a conversation?

Of course not; you'd simply take 10, which covers normal conversation with no problem. You make checks when you're trying to convey critical information in a foreign tongue. For example, let's say you're trying to warn someone in dwarvish about the pendulum which will knock him into the pit if he comes closer.

If you're fluent (a native speaker), no problem, you can just say, "A pendulum will knock you into the pit if you come closer."

Failed check by 5 or more - "You are a jelly-filled pastry who will be eaten by a hole in the floor." Note that no useful information is conveyed.

Failed check by 4 or less - "Don't come closer. A thingy will hit you down there." General gist, but important information has not been conveyed.

Success - "A pendulum will knock you into the pit if you come closer." Just like a native speaker.
Squeaks by - "A..uhh...big swinging thing will knock you into the pit if you come closer." If the DM cares enough to remove big words or wants to make a distinction between normal success and critical success.

If the warning is written, then the reader can optionally make a Decipher Script check instead of a Speak Language check.

 

[Nifft]

My proposed language rules (herein officially declared OGC):

Each language has 5 ranks total. These can be bought just like skill ranks, using the Speak Langage skill for each individual language. You begin with three ranks in your native language and one rank in each "bonus" language specified by race, region and/or background.

1. "Ou est la biblioteque?" -- you know some basic phrases by rote, and perhaps some basic insults. You can conduct trade in this language, including barter.
2. "Please to be helping find red hat, yes?" -- you can make yourself understood in most common circumstances, and can understand most insults.
3. "Voulez-vous couchez avec moi ce soir?" -- you can express most of your thoughts appropriately.
4. "The rain in Spain falls mainly on the plain." -- your accent is under your control, and you can tailor your speech to fit most social settings.
5. "If 'twer done when 'tis done, then 'twere well it were done quickly." -- you have mastered this language, and the only limit on your ability to express yourself is yourself.

Uses for this skill:

• Speaking and understanding is automatic. The player and DM should make up a quick list of rote phrases learned at one skill rank -- simple things which are useful for survival ("where is the bathroom?", directions, etc.) and trade ("how much does that cost?", numbers, etc.).
• All Social skill check bonuses are limited to 5 x Language Bonus. (Being Diplomatic without speaking would involve a Perform check, or would be limited by an appropriate Perform skill instead.) Exceptions can be made for very well-described Intimidate or Bluff checks, but in general, you are limited by your ability to express yourself verbally.
• Limited emulation of White Wolf's skill called Expression -- to make a new work of art in a language (say, a play), you make a check at [5 x Language] + Int bonus.

More detail desired?

-- N

 

[Iceflame55]

If you can, look up the Language skills in MERP. They had five ranks.

Rank 1: basic verbal communication (Safe to Eat?), no reading/writing

Rank 2: Speech on very simple subjects if both parties spoke carefully and slowly, allowed reading simple sentences for basics but no detail, and no writing.

Rank 3: Allow native level speech but with an accent, allows reading/writing at about 5th grade level.

Rank 4: as Rank 3, but with reading/writing as at 9th grade level.

Rank 5: Speaks perfectly, total literacy.

Now, Rolemaster had it at about 10 ranks the norm, with speech 8 writing 6 to norm for a native speaker, and 10/10 equalling scoholars.

Given my personal tastes, I'd say if I used any I'd use RM's language rank system, with skill points done as follows:

If language cross-class, have each point devoted to it be counted as 2, divided between Speaking and Writing as player seen fit. If it Class Skill, have each point be FOUR points divided as player seen fit. Native Languages would automatically start at Speaking rank 8 and Writing 6, to show them as such.

 

[Psimancer]

I’ve been running my game for about 8 months with languages split into two skills (spoken & written) with five levels of comprehension for each (5 ranks = fluently of a native).

In all honesty, I have found it to be too granular. I will be changing it to three tiered one (3 ranks = fluently of a native) in both written & spoken.

My original system was inspired by Kalamar & Rolemaster. My current system is more in line with the new GURPS (4th ed.) language system…



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