Old Fashioned Rules Question

[N8Ball]

Ok, so our rogue has the popular 3rd level encounter attack - Nasty Backswing, free action attack triggered when "You miss with a melee attack".

And he's considering taking the 9th level daily "Rogue's Recovery" that has "Effect: If you have used all your encounter attack powers you regain the use of a rogue encounter attack power you have used during this encounter. ..."

Here's my question: If all his encounter attacks had been used in the encounter, and the Rogue missed with Rogue's Recovery, could he regain Nasty Backswing from the effect of the daily power and and immediately use it triggered on the miss of the same power?

Basically, can the missed attack still be claimed as a trigger after the Effect of the same power resolves?

 

[TwoSix]

I don't know of any wording they would preclude it. Free actions occur during your turn. The trigger has been fulfilled. I don't know of any rules about how long you can delay a power from when the trigger is initiated, but I think "before you take another action" is pretty strict, and it certainly falls within that parameter.

 

[Gryph]

If you are playing with errata then no. If Nasty Backswing was the last encounter power then the Daily will allow your player to regain Nasty Backswing but not immediately use it. By the errata document, you cannot make more than 1 free action from the same source in the same turn. So, regardless of order of triggers, etc. a player couldn't free action Nasty Backswing twice in the same turn.

 

[Dragonblade]

Sure, why not? I don't see any hidden balance issue or game breaking exploit here.

 

[TwoSix]

If you are playing with errata then no. If Nasty Backswing was the last encounter power then the Daily will allow your player to regain Nasty Backswing but not immediately use it. By the errata document, you cannot make more than 1 free action from the same source in the same turn. So, regardless of order of triggers, etc. a player couldn't free action Nasty Backswing twice in the same turn.

But that's a different case. He's saying to use Rogue's Recovery, miss with it, than use the effect of Rogue's Recovery to gain back Nasty Backswing, with the trigger for its use being the Rogue's Recovery miss.

It boils down to "Can I trigger a power I technically wasn't capable of using at the moment the trigger was activated?" But I don't think there's anything that specifics how synchronous all the lines of a power are. Can the effect happen before or after the hit: or miss: line is resolved?

 

[Dragonblade]

If you are playing with errata then no. If Nasty Backswing was the last encounter power then the Daily will allow your player to regain Nasty Backswing but not immediately use it. By the errata document, you cannot make more than 1 free action from the same source in the same turn. So, regardless of order of triggers, etc. a player couldn't free action Nasty Backswing twice in the same turn.

Makes sense. I guess I misread the OP's post. I was assuming he missed with Rogue's Recovery. If he missed on Nasty Backswing, then used a utility to recover it and then immediately use it again, I could see where the no double free actions would come into play.

I still don't see a huge balance issue with it either way.

 

[Gryph]

Makes sense. I guess I misread the OP's post. I was assuming he missed with Rogue's Recovery. If he missed on Nasty Backswing, then used a utility to recover it and then immediately use it again, I could see where the no double free actions would come into play.

I still don't see a huge balance issue with it either way.

I agree, if the rogue is going to blow a daily to get the encounter back to effectively re-roll his hit die on Nasty Backswing I don't see a balance issue. I was just pointing out that there is an official rule that covers it. [MENTION=205]TwoSix[/MENTION], I guess I mis-read the OP. I thought Rogue's Recovery was a Utility he was using after missing with Nasty Backswing. If Rogue's Recovery is a daily attack and the power recovery is an effect rather than on hit, then I agree he could get the recovered attack from the daily and immediately use it on the missed attack trigger for Rogue's Recovery. Sorry, [MENTION=63757]N8Ball[/MENTION], if I mislead you.