D&D 5E Older editions weapon damage size modifiers--anyone remember why?

[hejtmane]

1E had weapon where more in depth good and bad you also had speed factor and if someone with a longer weapon they got to go first but they also had space required

 

[TerraDave]

I just looked at the 1E PHB and DMG.

I can find no explanation for the weapon tables. They are just there.

Ok, there is a little explanation in the DMG for one PHB table that "armor" in the weapon vs armor table is about armor worn and not final AC. But otherwise, they are just these sort of immaculate tables, appearing out of no where.

 

[Gadget]

I too seem to recall some reasoning along the lines of 'certain weapons more useful against larger+ opponents'. This, IIRC, worked along several axis of development: usually pole arms (and 1e had a lot of pole arms) got the bonus, as one would expect your long spear to be a more effective weapon against an ancient dragon than the tiny, pin-prick like (to a dragon) weapons usually employed effectively against medium sized humanoid opponents by adventures; even in our own history, no one went wild boar hunting with a sword/dagger/mace. This seemed to help along the verisimilitude/realism axis, though YMMV, etc. Next, along with weapon vs AC rules, it did add some mechanical diversity to the weapons, so it wasn't always a 'long sword is best in all situations' optimization; though that long sword paradigm was probably at least partially intended due to the class restrictions on weapons in place at the time.

Of course I cannot post any links or quotes to validate the above reasoning, it has been too long.

 

[hejtmane]

I just looked at the 1E PHB and DMG.

I can find no explanation for the weapon tables. They are just there.

Ok, there is a little explanation in the DMG for one PHB table that "armor" in the weapon vs armor table is about armor worn and not final AC. But otherwise, they are just these sort of immaculate tables, appearing out of no where.

Page 66 has all the speed stuff in the DMG like I said cool in some ways painful in others

 

[TerraDave]

Page 66 has all the speed stuff in the DMG like I said cool in some ways painful in others

Yes it does. I also remember trying to use that in play at the time...I could never forget!

 

[Ath'kethin]

The only thing I miss are the speed factors. A long sword is faster to swing than a two handed sword. That same long sword is slower that the short sword etc...

I don't know if you have looked at or used the table on page 271 of the DMG. It's not as robust as the 2e version, but it scratched the itch for me. IN my group we don't use the initiative system exactly as described in the section, but we use the speed factor adjustments.

 

[Hrothgar Rannúlfr]

I was recently reminded of the fact that, in 1E and 2E, weapons did different amounts of damage based on whether the target was Medium or smaller, vs. Large or larger.

Does anyone happen to know/recall why that was done? I'm interested on whether Gygax et al. ever gave solid reasons for it--both on a mechanical level and on an "in world" level. I don't remember seeing any such reasons myself, but my knowledge of older editions isn't encyclopedic.

As best as I can recall, it was likely to reflect the idea that some weapons would work better against certain sized creatures than others. That said, that's not how we played in the 80's, in our group. We just allowed the player to use the best damage for the weapon being wielded. And, the DM typically maxed out the monster's hit points. And, it worked and it was fun!

 

[discosoc]

I think it was purely an attempt at making all weapons possibly useful in the right situation, which was kind of important for fighters. Being able to draw the right weapon for your target was the versatility they were strong in. It's been a while, but I also remember the weapon damages made a bit more sense when also using the damage type vs armor type mechanic. Basically, everything has a weak spot, and a warrior with 6 weapons at his disposal was prepared to exploit it.

 

[Sword of Spirit]

With greatswords and longswords, I got the same idea that others have mentioned: that their long blades could do more damage to a bigger target.

Either I read it in the mysterious location we all remember it from...or maybe there was nothing written down and it is just something we all sort of guessed on our own as it's the most immediately plausible explanation.