OMG Fireball, Noooooooooooo!

[Szatany]

I hope a healing system, based on the recipient, instead of the user... like:

CLW: 1d4 per 2 HD (min. 1d4)
CMW: 1d6 per 2 HD (min. 1d6)
CSW: 1d4 per HD
CCW: 1d6 per HD
Heal: 10 per HD

If fireball doesn't deal scaling dice damage (3d6, 4d6, 5d6 and so on), I doubt very much other spells will. Would you like to play a cleric who heals each round for 15d4?

 

[WhatGravitas]

If fireball doesn't deal scaling dice damage (3d6, 4d6, 5d6 and so on), I doubt very much other spells will. Would you like to play a cleric who heals each round for 15d4?

15d4? Ugh... no. But I rather talked about the concept to base healing on the target's HD, instead of the caster's level, meaning even high level characters would be healed by a CLW relatively effectively, if they've got a single hit from an average critter.

Cheers, LT.

 

[Keldryn]

I'm not sure there will be no more level cap. This was an "improvement" of 3e. I guess we have already forgotten why they were there... Hum, something about higher level spells being more powerful than lower ones.

Wasn't it 2nd Edition that started putting level caps on spells like Fireball and Magic Missile?

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

I really don't like the "everything scales at the same rate" feel of games like C&C, where a 1st level character fighting a 1st level monster, saving against a 1st level spell, or trying to disarm a 1st level trap has the same chances of success as a 5th level character fighting a 5th level monster, saving against a 5th level spell, or trying to disarm a 5th level trap, who has the same chances as a 9th level character fighting a 9th level monster, saving against a 9th level spell, or trying to disarm a 9th level trap does (and so on). It makes the game boring, predictable, and samey and at least somewhat defeats the purpose of having levels at all.

I greatly prefer the game changing feel as characters level up -- low level characters pretty much suck and have bad chances at just about everything and have to depend on luck or wits to survive, mid-level characters are in the 'sweet spot' where they've got a little better than 50% chance of doing most things, and high-level characters can reliably count on succeeding at most die rolls -- and rather than seeing the designers get rid of that aspect of play and make it so "everything is mid-level," [/b]I'd rather they had provided ways for the GM to customize the game to prolong whatever aspect he prefers (i.e. if the GM wants to run a "gritty" campaign where the players are always on the brink of disaster he could do so without having to worry about the feel of the campaign changing once the characters hit 5th level; likewise a GM who wants a super-heroic campaign could start right off with it without having to first play through 5 levels of gritty and 5 levels of heroic).[/b]

Well, apparently, they have. If everything scales at the same level, if you want a permanently gritty game, just raise the DC of every roll by 5. If you want a permanently super-heroic game, lower the DC by 5.

 

[Thunderfoot]

The average of 1d6 is 3.5. So, 3d6 +2/level means that fireball are even less a threat than with 3e.
I do think a big ball of burning fire should be a dangerous thing. Something that you fear ! If "fireball" is something that can be cas "at will", then I can understand it to be "3d6+1/level" (with a maximum of 10). But if it's your only 5th level spell, the one you kept for THE right moment, then it should cause something like 5d6+5/level, with a maximum of 50. Oh, and it should be midly dangerous to cast, too, 2e-like.

Unfortunately, the spell system is no longer strictly "Vancian" therefore, this doesn't work this way. Fireball will probably be a 7th level spell (note spell level and class will be equal or close to equal apparently.) I have a feeling that dice/level or even dice+mod/level as we know them are things of history. Though if they paid as much attention to the math as they have been claiming, a suitable substitute will rear its head in the final printing.

 

[blargney the second]

Have you guys read the Design & Development article about the Dungeon Delve from last year's GenCon? There's a particular section in there called Dice Expressions I Wouldn’t Wish on My Worst Enemy that this discussion reminded me of.

I'm not really bothered about (level)d6 going away because I've had a year to get used to the idea from that article. It's worth the read if you haven't already done so.
-blarg

 

[Geron Raveneye]

Wasn't it 2nd Edition that started putting level caps on spells like Fireball and Magic Missile?

Nope, damage spells were already capped in Basic D&D, although at 20 dice of whatever was used.

 

[JoeGKushner]

Do they get a save?

(ducks)

To be honest, I think saving throws need a huge revisions as well. Too many rolls. Especially bogus when you're a spellcaster and have to overcome DR, make a to hit roll, and then hope the poor smuk fails a saving throw on top of it.

 

[JoeGKushner]

Do we know that, though?

By my reading, James didn't say "fireballs don't do xd6 damage." He said they don't do "1d6 damage/level."

That could just mean they do 1d6 damage per two caster levels.

Not saying your interpretation is necessarily wrong; just that I don't think we can take it as a given.

Or 1d10 a level!

 

[mmu1]

I really don't like the "everything scales at the same rate" feel of games like C&C, where a 1st level character fighting a 1st level monster, saving against a 1st level spell, or trying to disarm a 1st level trap has the same chances of success as a 5th level character fighting a 5th level monster, saving against a 5th level spell, or trying to disarm a 5th level trap, who has the same chances as a 9th level character fighting a 9th level monster, saving against a 9th level spell, or trying to disarm a 9th level trap does (and so on). It makes the game boring, predictable, and samey and at least somewhat defeats the purpose of having levels at all.

I agree completely. The game should feel different as the characters grow in power, otherwise it's just an exericse in increasing numbers.

It doesn't mean that the current high-level play is perfect - plenty of improvements could be made, because things often get rather predictable - but simply scaling things linearly with level is a lazy man's solution one might expect from a MMORPG.

On the other hand, provided that the scope of what feats, talents, special abilities and spells can do grows with level, then it should be possible to make high-level characters feel more powerful even if certain things like AC vs. BAB and HP vs. base damage are scaled linearly.