D&D General On gatekeeping and the 'live-streaming edition wars'

[Fenris-77]

That thought, "why didn't this work, why wasn't it like I imagined", is common to new players and GMs of every TTRPG I'd imagine. As you learn the system your games creep closer to realizing the ideal you had in mind. Some people have the patience and interest to continue toward that goal and some don't, but I don't think CR fans are any different in that regard, nor is their experience of this problem any different than gamers in the 70's who wanted their game to be just like Lord of the Rings.

 

[Beleriphon]

It's been to long, can't remember details, but I remember WotC publishing Diablo books with chatter that they would also be publishing WarCraft and StarCraft books too . . . . but WotC sublicensed the WarCraft books to White Wolf, and I don't ever remember seeing StarCraft books . . . . but I do remember at the time that WotC bungled the entire licensing deal with Blizzard!

I checked, StarCraft was published as an Alternity sourcebook.

 

[Maxperson]

I was responding to the “why not play instead” comment.

it misunderstands why most of us (that I know) watch these shows. They’re long form improv drama using a framework I’m familiar with and enjoy, with characters, worlds, and themes, that I enjoy. Nothing to do at all with watching someone playing dnd, as such.

I played in the game of one of the guys who does these kinds of shows. He's been on D&D beyond, Founders and Legends and more. He was my DM for 15 years, so I sometimes watch him in interviews and games. It's really enjoyable for me. If I had more time, I'd watch more, including Critical Role, which I have never seen. Hell, I even went to a live event here in Los Angeles a few months ago to see him, Luke Gygax and a few others play at a venue where there were hundreds of fans. Not once did I look at anyone there and think, not a fan of the game or even a lesser fan than me.

 

[OblivionDrive]

You are presuming that I think mine is worth more than others. My argument is that it shouldn't be worth less.

Except... it's not.

And you'll forgive the presumption since the tone and tenor of the same argument you've been making from thread to thread about this new book kinda says exactly the opposite.

If WotC wants to chase potential future customers at the expense of existing long term customers, they shouldn't be surprised when we go support companies that produce what we want, especially if their flash in the pan new customer base dries up.

And we're RIGHT BACK to that baseless strawman presumption that there is no overlap between "CR fans" and "longtime D&D customers"

Here's a question for you - when do they get to stop being "flash-in-the-pan new customers" to you and become "regular customers?" You weren't born a grognard and neither was I. Everyone was new once.

In less than two months, CR will have been going for five years - it started airing March of 2015. To contrast, it has been going for almost the entire lifespan of 5e (July/August of 2014 to Current) and has been around LONGER than 4e was alive for (June 2008 to say, when they announced/started the D&D Next playtest - Jan/May 2012).

So when do newcomers get to be accepted by you and let through the gates? When have they sufficiently "earned" it, in your eyes? Five years isn't enough to not still be seen as flighty, wet-behind-the-ears kids chasing a fad?

This edition has been doing so well thanks in no small part to the influx of new blood from streamers. WotC has said as much and it's obvious to anyone keeping tabs on the hobby as a whole. Would you rather the hobby die by inches as the old guard slowly calcify and turn to stone while keeping that gate fast and firm against anyone they feel is undesirable?

Eff that - I'll take a dozen new players who came into the hobby via streaming shows over one tired old grognard yelling at people to get off his lawn. And when WotC finally gets around to reviving those old settings we want? It means we'll have thousands of fresh new eyes willing to try them out and bring new perspectives to old classics. Sounds like a win/win to me.

 

[OblivionDrive]

Every business ever who overextended themselves said the same thing...

Ahhh yes, because if there's a company that has overextended itself, it's... checks notes ...the D&D arm of WotC that people have been criticizing for the last five years for being too slow and measured with their release schedule...

 

[Maxperson]

And we're RIGHT BACK to that baseless strawman presumption that there is no overlap between "CR fans" and "longtime D&D customers"

I don't have any numbers, but my feeling is that the majority of Critical Role fans play D&D. Either from before they started watching, or since they got into the game because of Critical Role. That's a lot of D&D customers who have a vested interest in this campaign setting, and I would think many D&D players who don't watch Critical Role, many of whom may not even know about Critical Role, would also be interested in a new setting.

 

[OblivionDrive]

The Mercer Effect can occur regardless of the setting, and, perhaps, the tagline will make some hope for more than is possible. But, the whole point of the sourcebook is to provide a world, not inter-player chemistry.

I'm just trying to imagine the hypothetical person who is going to read "Create your own Critical Role campaign with this sourcebook" and think that means "Reading this book will impart years of acting and improv training on me, automagically."

 

[Saracenus]

The feeling I get walking into this thread and several others in the past few days...

 

[Fenris-77]

Someone has uttered a declarative statement! I must draw the sword of rhetoric and prove the opposite against their bodies. Cry havoc I say!

Or you know, we could be chill. Whatevs.

 

[Garthanos]

Didn't they learn only 4th edition isn't playing D&D