D&D General On gatekeeping and the 'live-streaming edition wars'

[Fenris-77]

What do you mean by this? Are you saying that most respondents who watched Critical Role are not actually going to purchase D&D products?

I feel like we're quickly slipping into fake news conspiracy theory territory here. The evidence is all fake etc etc.

 

[generic]

I feel like we're quickly slipping into fake news conspiracy theory territory here. The evidence is all fake etc etc.

Agreed. It often feels like, on occasion, no evidence will ever be enough, because all evidence can be circumvented...

 

[3catcircus]

What do you mean by this? Are you saying that most respondents who watched Critical Role are not actually going to purchase D&D products?

What I'm saying is that if you asked x number of people if they were interested in something and then ask them if they were going to buy that something and then actually see if they did buy that something, the numbers of positive responses will be less in each instance. Interested > will buy > actually bought.

 

[generic]

What I'm saying is that if you asked x number of people if they were interested in something and then ask them if they were going to buy that something and then actually see if they did buy that something, the numbers of positive responses will be less in each instance. Interested > will buy > actually bought.

Yes, but that's statistically the same across most demographics, and, if any Critical Role viewers are drawn to the game or purchase the upcoming book, it is a gain for WotC.

It doesn't matter if there will be drop-off, which, I'm sure, WotC has accounted for. There must still be a significant number of possible buyers who seem statistically likely (in terms of drop-off rates) to purchase the product that the product will do well.

 

[3catcircus]

Yes, but that's statistical y the same across most demographics, and, if any Critical Role viewers are drawn to the game or purchase the upcoming book, it is a gain for WotC.

It doesn't matter if there will be drop-off, which, I'm sure, WotC has accounted for. There must still be a significant number of possible buyers who seem statistically likely (in terms of drop-off rates) to purchase the product that the product will do well.

Perhaps, but one need only look at the drop-off rate to determine that. We already know that Wildemount had a momentary spike at #1 of all books on Amazon (it's currently listed at 27 in overall best sellers). While it is impossible to exactly know what the sales numbers are and being ranked #27 is impressive, a drop from #1 to #27 means that sales have dropped off at least by 1/3 in only a matter of a few days. Saying that its #2 in D&D books may be less meaningful since there are still 3rd and 4th edition products listed, as well as non-game books like novels, in that category's top 100.

 

[generic]

Perhaps, but one need only look at the drop-off rate to determine that. We already know that Wildemount had a momentary spike at #1 of all books on Amazon (it's currently listed at 27 in overall best sellers). While it is impossible to exactly know what the sales numbers are and being ranked #27 is impressive, a drop from #1 to #27 means that sales have dropped off at least by 1/3 in only a matter of a few days. Saying that its #2 in D&D books may be less meaningful since there are still 3rd and 4th edition products listed, as well as non-game books like novels, in that category's top 100.

We have seen a consistent pattern of books rising very quickly during the pre-order phase, dropping off, and then, rising again after the general sale period. I'm willing to reserve judgement for a while.

 

[3catcircus]

We have seen a consistent pattern of books rising very quickly during the pre-order phase, dropping off, and then, rising again after the general sale period. I'm willing to reserve judgement for a while.

Maybe. I'd argue that WotC's own website's tagline for Wildemount is "Create your own Critical Role campaigns with this sourcebook..." What happens when DMs and players (especially any who've been waiting for this to actually begin playing D&D vs watching a webstream of other people playing D&D) buy this expecting to be able to emulate what they see on CR? We all are already aware of the Mercer Effect regarding player expectation - whether warranted or not.

 

[Chaosmancer]

You are presuming that I think mine is worth more than others. My argument is that it shouldn't be worth less. Mercer's statements reassuring people hold less weight than if WotC were to be the one making the statement - he isn't the one controlling WotC's schedule - WotC is. If WotC wants to chase potential future customers at the expense of existing long term customers, they shouldn't be surprised when we go support companies that produce what we want, especially if their flash in the pan new customer base dries up.

"Flash in the pan"? Really?

I guess that's fair if you have no knowledge about CR at all. But, they started streaming in March 2015. DnD 5e was first published is August 2014.

So, half a year after 5e was published, a massively successful and ongoing program started featuring 5e. If they are a "flash in the pan" then so is 5e itself. Heck, five years for an entertainment program?

That is almost as long as the original Star Wars Trilogy movies (1977 to 1983, six years) and longer than the original run of Star Trek (1966 to 1969, three years)

I'm sure we could go on, pointing out many beloved things who release of new media (obviously, after all, the impact of Star Wars has lasted longer than 6 years, and there were other seasons of Star Trek) was just as long or shorter than Critical Role.

And, it is the kind of thing where you can call a massively successful, continuous five year show, a flash in the pan that makes us think you view the fans of that medium as having less of an opinion than you. Because you are an "established customer" who will stick with the company, unlike those flighty fans who have been loyally following the same DnD 5e campaign for five years.

 

[generic]

Maybe. I'd argue that WotC's own website's tagline for Wildemount is "Create your own Critical Role campaigns with this sourcebook..." What happens when DMs and players (especially any who've been waiting for this to actually begin playing D&D vs watching a webstream of other people playing D&D) buy this expecting to be able to emulate what they see on CR? We all are already aware of the Mercer Effect regarding player expectation - whether warranted or not.

You're just shifting the argument in different directions in an attempt to maintain your position.

Okay.

The Mercer Effect can occur regardless of the setting, and, perhaps, the tagline will make some hope for more than is possible. But, the whole point of the sourcebook is to provide a world, not inter-player chemistry.

 

[Chaosmancer]

Perhaps, but one need only look at the drop-off rate to determine that. We already know that Wildemount had a momentary spike at #1 of all books on Amazon (it's currently listed at 27 in overall best sellers). While it is impossible to exactly know what the sales numbers are and being ranked #27 is impressive, a drop from #1 to #27 means that sales have dropped off at least by 1/3 in only a matter of a few days. Saying that its #2 in D&D books may be less meaningful since there are still 3rd and 4th edition products listed, as well as non-game books like novels, in that category's top 100.

I'm not highly familiar with Amazon's rankings, but since it is likely #1 sold within a certain timeframe, the drop off makes sense. After all, people have bought it, they aren't going to buy it a second, third or fourth time, and until it comes out and gets reviewed, a lot of people will be saving their money. So, of course, the ranking will fall, because to keep a high ranking they would need to constantly be selling the same amount. Which is impossible, since eventually, you just run out of people.

Maybe. I'd argue that WotC's own website's tagline for Wildemount is "Create your own Critical Role campaigns with this sourcebook..." What happens when DMs and players (especially any who've been waiting for this to actually begin playing D&D vs watching a webstream of other people playing D&D) buy this expecting to be able to emulate what they see on CR? We all are already aware of the Mercer Effect regarding player expectation - whether warranted or not.

Then they grow as people.

I bet there were a lot of people frustrated that their Wood Elf Archer couldn't do everything they saw Legolas do in the movie.

Sure, some people might quit and call the game stupid and dumb, and never pick it up again. Those people were never going to stay on, because they expected something impossible. Most people will recognize that you can't perfectly imitate what a different group of people has pulled off. You aren't those people. This game isn't the Lord of the Rings movie.

So, we might get a flood of people asking "why didn't this work, why wasn't it like I imagined" and we, as more expeirenced members of the community, should gently guide them into realizing that they need to find their own way of making stories, not simply try and copy the stories they loved.

It isn't a bad thing. Just part of the hobby.