D&D General On simulating things: what, why, and how?

[Thomas Shey]

Curious about that "Obviously I want the world to resemble the real one excepting those areas where it explicitly doesn't".

For me it's the opposite - I'd rather have a single emulation of a genre so that I have a consistant way to evaluate and view everything, instead of having two quite different yardsticks and times where it's not obvious which I should be using, and can perhaps switch between the two in the same action. "Well, can I jump 15' across the chasm? And if I fail and fall 30' what does that mean."

Reminds me of the movie "The Last Action Hero", where things have very different internal logic inside the movie and outside. I'd I know real world and I know high fantasy genre, but only one of them can cover everything in game. I personally would rather only one consistent way.

The problem is, "high fantasy" doesn't actually tell you anything predictive, because different people in high fantasy don't really work by the same rules. You can set up a fantasy setting that has its assumptions spelled out, but even in those, some part tends to drop back to "the real world, more or less."

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

How is the hit established? Is there some sort of parry/dodge defence value?

All PC attacks go against Fortitude, Reflex, or Will. Some monsters might be able to establish the use of a skill or power as a defense, perhaps. PCs make defense checks, and they ALWAYS utilize some sort of skill or power as a defense, or at least a raw ability score. They generally get to pick which one to attempt however, at least subject to some reasonable assertion of fiction (IE good luck using your Charisma to resist a sword blow, unless you have some really clever story for that!). Usually PCs have at least one or two defensive powers anyway, but if you don't an ability score will work OK.

One think I have considered for a "D&Dish" game with armour as a DR is to make the protection the armour offers a die. So a leather armour might have a DR of d4, a mail armour d8 and so forth. (Magic armour could be a static plus on top of that.) It would have the benefit of not making the heavily armoured folks automatically completely immune to low damage effects, and would aesthetically pleasingly mirror the different weapons using different sized dice too.

Yeah, you could do that. There are possibly other options. Since the player rolls defense for a PC, he could have the success level of his defense folded in as well. So if you fail badly, or get extraordinary success, then you'd take more or less than baseline damage. There's probably a few ways to accomplish the gist of what you're suggesting. Its actually something I should look into, as I still have to do some rewriting on the defense rules. Thx.

 

[Blue]

Right. Like is the guy fighting the dragon just a normal person, who can just do that because they're the main character and thus have insane plot armour, or are they actually a mythic hero, who literally is not the same than a normal person from our modern world. The former is more of an emulation, the latter a simulation. The fighter's high combat stats actually simulate them being a superhuman badass.

This I agree with. The games is emulating the genre, in this case high fantasy. Where you can through might of arms, talent and training go toe-to-toe with a dragon. That the character is a superhuman badass. That you can jump 40' down and still fight, and lift boulder trapping your boon companion's leg.

I don't get why people would want to say "you're a mythic hero who's a superhuman badass but you needs to run, jump and carry in amounts that I can observe in the real world". That the characters being played are not mundane and are not limited to real world actions, be it by magic or skill.

 

[Hussar]

How does this 40 feet lizard fit in a ten foot square? Even if we assume that neck and tail overhang a bit to account for the extra reach it has, this doesn't make sense.


Where are these numbers coming from? In any case, I don't find it impossible that humans armed with late medieval weaponry could kill even an argentinosaurus. Though personally I wouldn't try it!

You mean the size categories where everything is a cube doesn’t make sense is anti-simulation?

You don’t say…

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

I keep reading that the high level fighters are less athletic than real world people and so that's unrealistic. But is that just the body type? Slow and can't jump far. But a 20 STR one is noticeably stronger than a gorilla (16 str) and athletic enough to go about their day carrying 300 pounds of gear (not only on long marches, but also while climbing, swimming, and jumping). Uhm... so, uhm, realism?

I think the argument is that EVEN IF you were, as a mundane human (which many people would consider fighters to be) the most bad-assed of all mundane humans on planet Earth, you'd be lunch for the likes of a dragon. You'd be lunch for the likes of a mad raging bull elephant (seriously google 'elephant attacks') to be perfectly honest. and a 5e elephant is a snack for a fairly likely sort of 5e dragon. A 20th level fighter can beat this dragon, but how? He'd have to be FAR beyond human levels of performance in many areas, realistically to stand any chance at all.

 

[Ovinomancer]

I keep reading that the high level fighters are less athletic than real world people and so that's unrealistic. But is that just the body type? Slow and can't jump far. But a 20 STR one is noticeably stronger than a gorilla (16 str) and athletic enough to go about their day carrying 300 pounds of gear (not only on long marches, but also while climbing, swimming, and jumping). Uhm... so, uhm, realism?

Not sure if serious or joking. I'd say joking, but there's been some doozies already.

 

[Reynard]

So my question is: when you would not use simulation in D&D and why?

If you have thoughts about when you would and why, then I’d imagine you’ve had to consider when not to and why.

No?

Not really? I mean, I'm not thinking about it in the negative. I know the places I would like to see sim systems. Since my definition of sim her is not hard and fast, and explicitly allows for fantastical elements, I am not sure I feel strongly about any particular area where I would be appalled at sim elements.

I'm really not sure why you are focused on that rather than engaging what I am saying, but to be completely honest it feels like a trap. So if you have some gotcha in the chamber, you might as well come out with it.

 

[Cadence]

Not sure if serious or joking. I'd say joking, but there's been some doozies already.

I did indeed think the day long matches, swimming, climbing, and jumping all with 300 lbs of gear seemed well beyond normal human limits.

 

[hawkeyefan]

Not really? I mean, I'm not thinking about it in the negative. I know the places I would like to see sim systems. Since my definition of sim her is not hard and fast, and explicitly allows for fantastical elements, I am not sure I feel strongly about any particular area where I would be appalled at sim elements.

I'm really not sure why you are focused on that rather than engaging what I am saying, but to be completely honest it feels like a trap. So if you have some gotcha in the chamber, you might as well come out with it.

Nope, no gotcha. Just trying to get to something weightier than these general comments.

Carry on.

 

[niklinna]

Not really? I mean, I'm not thinking about it in the negative. I know the places I would like to see sim systems. Since my definition of sim her is not hard and fast, and explicitly allows for fantastical elements, I am not sure I feel strongly about any particular area where I would be appalled at sim elements.

I'm really not sure why you are focused on that rather than engaging what I am saying, but to be completely honest it feels like a trap. So if you have some gotcha in the chamber, you might as well come out with it.

You know the places you would like to see sim systems, your original post was asking for a discussion about it, but you won't reveal the places you would particularly like to see the them.

The trap/gotcha was apparently in your original post.