D&D (2024) One D&D Grappling

[DND_Reborn]

No worries. I know we sometimes butt heads, but I felt like there was a disconnect someplace...

Also, what's your opinion on 1D&D's Shove? That does what you want. If your attack connects, using normal attack rules, you break the Grapple by moving them 5' away. That's a lot easier than 5E, where it's an opposed challenge and the PC is a lot more likely to have Proficiency/Expertise/Advantage

I'm fine with it. I prefer it to skill checks for grapple and shove since the expertise thing makes some weird scenarios, but what is still missing IMO is an option to escape via the attack (instead of a free save at the end of the round) using a DEX-attack instead of STR.

As for provoking an OA, I mean that's just not how 5E/1D&D works. I think that'd be fine in a game where OAs were provoked vastly more often, but it should very much also apply to most grappling monsters.

Yeah, I know 5E removed such things, but I agree most grappling monsters would also provoke an OA if such rules were used again.

 

[Yaarel]

Provided a base level of training, sure.

But lots of people are very ineffective at grappling (which reduces the target's speed to 0). It is one reason why Unarmed Strike should still be a simple weapon proficiency, not just allow everyone to have it. Do you understand how many people really don't know how to throw a punch properly??? Wizards and Sorcerers are the only two classes without Simple weapons, so they should not be proficient in Unarmed Strikes, either.

@DND_Reborn

I feel unarmed needs to be a viable attack, even for Wizards, perhaps especially for Wizards.

 

[Haplo781]

@DND_Reborn

I feel unarmed needs to be a viable attack, even for Wizards, perhaps especially for Wizards.

Nah. They can be not-great at one thing for once.

 

[Yaarel]

Nah. They can be not-great at one thing for once.

For a Wizard, unarmed should be as viable as a dagger or staff.

 

[DND_Reborn]

@DND_Reborn

I feel unarmed needs to be a viable attack, even for Wizards, perhaps especially for Wizards.

Most "nerdy" people don't know how to punch IME... YMMV, of course.

 

[Yaarel]

Most "nerdy" people don't know how to punch IME... YMMV, of course.

These are adventurers with some kind of combat training or experience.

 

[TheSword]

The new rules have simultaneously made grappling easier to do and also more effective. While making them easier to break. That seems to me to be a fair and sensible approach.

Now you have a reasonable chance of grappling even if you’re dex based monk or fighter. You might not be able to keep hold of them for long, but you can stop them for a round or two and throw them about.

Disadvantage against other people is a significant debuff. Particularly useful if your barbarian grappler has resistance, or has a particularly high AC or you just want to stop a party member being attacked. Added to the 0 move debuff it’s a decent effect that is useful in lots of situations…

… that said if those were applied without making it easier to break out it would also be unbalanced. Under the current rules it’s possible to be great at grappling very easily. A 5th level character can get +7 Athletics at the cost of a skill and be considerably better with class abilities (barbarian etc). A troll - a large viscious powerful creature that should be a challenge for a whole party of 5th level characters gets +4 Athletics - because monsters as a general rule don’t have skills. The troll gets a 50-50 chance of breaking out at the end of its turn, after a minor debuff. Sounds fair to me.

The old system was too easy to break, and not good enough to be worthwhile. Happy days that they have come up with some tweaks.

Five or six more combat maneuvers like this and we could be on to a winner.

 

[Haplo781]

These are adventurers with some kind of combat training or experience.

Yes... And wizards cast spells in combat. Bonking someone with your staff is not something you should be doing on a regular basis when you can cast fire bolt or shocking grasp.

 

[DND_Reborn]

These are adventurers with some kind of combat training or experience.

This:

Yes... And wizards cast spells in combat. Bonking someone with your staff is not something you should be doing on a regular basis when you can cast fire bolt or shocking grasp.

 

[Stalker0]

The bottom line for me is that these rules make grappling significantly weaker than it was before.

Because you need to hit, grappling is no longer a way to bypass a high ac opponent.

Monsters in general will have a much much MUCH higher chance of resisting a grapple, so much so it’s night and day. Not to mention legendary resistance options.

The auto escape removes a lot of the benefit of grapple, forcing them to consume actions to escape. Actions are everything, this is a huge change.


Grapple is weak now, and I don’t like weak options so I’m a no on this right now. I do understand why they did it, hell I’ve had a pit fiend in my game just tossed around like a rag doll because he doesn’t have athletics prof…but you can solve that in monster design, not by making grappling crappy.