D&D General One thing I hate about the Sorcerer

[Remathilis]

You get away with it as late as 3.5, and certainly before that. Even in 5e the narrative could work early on. Fighters and rogues who are explicitly supernatural from level 1 takes away a lot of fictional character narratives and references.

Yet it's not a concern for barbarians, rangers monks, and paladins to be supernatural out the gate?

 

[TwoSix]

no, we will do it without the supernatural assistance, my character will become Just That Good to stand at that level without that stuff.

To my mind, the iconic version of the "badass normal" "Just That Good" high-level fighter is John Wick.

Nothing he does seems supernatural, but the results are obviously that of a creature of myth and legend.

 

[FrogReaver]

Yet it's not a concern for barbarians, rangers monks, and paladins to be supernatural out the gate?

no.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Then you don't mind when you are overshadowed by the supernatural abilities from the other classes. You can go from zero to hero while everyone else goes from hero to demigod. Then again, I guess someone has to be the Samwise in a party of Gandalfs and Aragorns...

Are you saying that current fighters and rogues, not called out at present as supernatural, are overshadowed by equal level characters of other classes? Right from the beginning?

 

[Micah Sweet]

it's lucky then that the game doesn't have to pass muster for what 'makes sense' to micah sweet

Where's the discussion of "just that good" in the books? As far as I can tell, vanilla 5e keeps pace for the "just that good" classes through the power of "number go up" alone. Not exactly inspiring.

 

[CreamCloud0]

Then you don't mind when you are overshadowed by the supernatural abilities from the other classes. You can go from zero to hero while everyone else goes from hero to demigod. Then again, I guess someone has to be the Samwise in a party of Gandalfs and Aragorns...

but samwise wasnt a trained fighter, he was literally a GARDENER, and on the other end of things gandalf was a literal divine entity, despite being one of the most iconic inspirations for fantasy lord of the rings is possibly one of the worst examples for DnD, the fellowship is like, four level 1 fighters and rogues, four 4th level fighters of assorted specialisations and the 7th level dmpc super wizard.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Yet it's not a concern for barbarians, rangers monks, and paladins to be supernatural out the gate?

Why would it be? Those classes are clearly accessing some variety of supernatural or magical power. They say so. Fighters and rogues don't.

 

[Remathilis]

Are you saying that current fighters and rogues, not called out at present as supernatural, are overshadowed by equal level characters of other classes? Right from the beginning?

Not necessarily, the power level of all classes at low level is slow enough to keep pace. It starts to be visible at 5th level and gets increasingly noticeable after that until 10+ levels where the gap widens significantly. I'd like to give F&R a boost so that we can close the gap sooner and keep it on par without reliance on things outside their kit like items and support casters.

 

[Remathilis]

Why would it be? Those classes are clearly accessing some variety of supernatural or magical power. They say so. Fighters and rogues don't.

Right, and that's an error worth correcting.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Not necessarily, the power level of all classes at low level is slow enough to keep pace. It starts to be visible at 5th level and gets increasingly noticeable after that until 10+ levels where the gap widens significantly. I'd like to give F&R a boost so that we can close the gap sooner and keep it on par without reliance on things outside their kit like items and support casters.

Sure, but early on they can be mundane. You claimed earlier that there was no reason for them to do so. "Why wait?"