D&D General One thing I hate about the Sorcerer

[Micah Sweet]

Fighter's studying or not studying Ki doesn't matter. What does the book say? "This energy is an element of the magic that suffuses the multiverse—specifically, the element that flows through living bodies." Do fighter's have living bodies? Then they have Ki. Whether they study it or not is immaterial. They have it.

Though, I do suppose the book doesn't specify if Fighter's are alive. They could all be dead. Is that an argument you would like to make? That no fighter has a living body?

Why does the book say that monks get power from harnessing ki, but it doesn't say that for fighters and rogues? Why is that inconsistency meaningless to your argument? If said argument is that every living body uses ki, and therefore every class has supernatural abilities, why does only the monk mention it?

 

[Micah Sweet]

You keep demanding explanations for fundamental things. Asking how the devotion of a paladin who draws power from their devotion gets their power is like asking how a wizard who studies magic learns magic. They studied it.

Except there's no mention of magic or the supernatural in the description of either the fighter or the rogue. There is no evidence for your argument.

 

[Chaosmancer]

Artificers are too spell-slingery. But Justice League Batman is I think an artificer subclass of Rogue (in the way the Arcane Trickster is a wizard subclass of rogue).

Well, depends on how you phrase it, right?

Plot contrivance can make a web spell into a web grenade. And the Artificer supports doing this. It is reflavoring and maybe against the magical nature of the artficer, but I don't know how else to represent the super gadgets batman uses.

 

[CreamCloud0]

Which is an idiotic way to approach the problem if you're multibillionaire. With that kind of money he could totally reform Gotham into an utopia from the grime-ridden hellhole it currently is, but instead he runs around in pyjamas punching other mentally unstable people.

You do know that batman DOES DO ALL THAT too though right? Funding all sorts of rehabs and charities and school programs and homeless shelters and social care and provide jobs and all the rest of it, but then, he ALSO goes out at night to prevent all the stuff his charity didn’t stop.

No.

Batman's super power is his mind. His brain is so twisted it forced himself to trained to be one of the top 5 martial artists, sneaks, and detectives in the world to prevent an unpreventable random crime from happening to anyone else.

The problem with Batman is he has all the nonmagical feats and 6+ skill expertise

Is that really a ‘problem’ though? If that’s what nonmagical martials need to stand with the rest of the supernatural powered classes i say give it to them, even more expertise, additional feats, a handful of fighting styles each.

 

[Neonchameleon]

Well, depends on how you phrase it, right?

Plot contrivance can make a web spell into a web grenade. And the Artificer supports doing this. It is reflavoring and maybe against the magical nature of the artficer, but I don't know how else to represent the super gadgets batman uses.

I think you're more thinking of Green Arrow than Batman; other than Batarangs, Bat-Grapnels, and Smoke Bombs Batman tends to get 1-2 tailored gadgets per adventure. Which is part of why I think infusions would work better.

 

[Chaosmancer]

Why does the book say that monks get power from harnessing ki, but it doesn't say that for fighters and rogues? Why is that inconsistency meaningless to your argument? If said argument is that every living body uses ki, and therefore every class has supernatural abilities, why does only the monk mention it?

Except there's no mention of magic or the supernatural in the description of either the fighter or the rogue. There is no evidence for your argument.

Because the writers of DnD did not expect to need to explain to people that Dungeons and Dragons takes place in a fantasy world full of magic. They didn't think they needed to explicitly state "magic is real, people can use magic" in every single class.

6 out of 10 fighters are explicitly magical. Only four of them could have any excuse to not be magical.

But that doesn't matter. Because you demanded an explanation. We said that DnD is a place with magical background radiation suffusing everything. You demanded to know where it says that in the books. Monks say that Ki is a magical energy found in all living bodies, proving using the books that DnD is a place with magical background radiation. Now you demand to know why this was never mentioned for the specific classes of the fighter or rogue.

If I could magically make that explanation appear, what would be your next demand? Why it wasn't more clear?

Again. If you take the books as gospel, every living body has magical energy in it in the world's of DnD. Argue that Fighters and Rogues do not have living bodies, or accept that we have given you the explanation you kept demanding.

 

[CreamCloud0]

Then bring back the warrior, expert and commoner classes. If people want to role play as NPCs, give them NPC classes. Let PC classes afford the power budget to do the amazing things needed to keep up with casters and fight powerful monsters.

People don’t want to play npc classes, they want to play mundane non-powered heroes who still do extraordinary feats of strength, skill and heroism on the level of all the rest of the classes and not get told ‘oh 10th level, better join team magic now cause skill wont cut it from here’ because that is what those class’s fantasies are.

It’s really not that difficult a concept to grasp is it?

 

[Shardstone]

Yup. The choice is definitely between perfect physics simulation or complete anything goes fantasy. There couldn't possibly be anything in between.

Believing so hard in a mythical planar Daddy that you gain the power to move stuff with your mind (traditional cleric) vs believing in yourself or a virtue so had you get it.

I prefer the option of the latter because it means I don't have to make a slave everytime I make a faith-based character. Sometimes I don't want to make a drow that has to lick lolth's toe fungus in order to cast smite someone.

 

[CreamCloud0]

But the "purely mundane" can't stick swords through dragonscale.

But what if the purely mundane, they could?

There needs to be a level cap for the mundanes unless you're going right to JLA Batman types.

Why though? Why do they need a level cap. Really?

 

[Minigiant]

Is that really a ‘problem’ though? If that’s what nonmagical martials need to stand with the rest of the supernatural powered classes i say give it to them, even more expertise, additional feats, a handful of fighting styles each.

It isn't.

The point i keep saying that D&D keeps short changing nonmagical PCs in order to make something for the new or tired. Even though fighters of myth and story were never simple.

D&D should introduce or convert classes as the simple new classes. One Martial One magical

If you don't want to make new classes
Barbarian is the simple primal warrior.
Warlock is the simple arcane mage.

Fighter and Sorcerer are your intermediate difficulty classes introducing you to maneuvers/fightingstyles and spells respectively.