D&D 5E Only three pillars?

[Paul Farquhar]

It occurs to me that there's two other things I should note about Downtime as a pillar/mode:

1. Character generation falls under downtime.

Things that are done as preparation, such as planning an adventure, worldbuilding, painting minis and character creation are not part of PLAYING D&D. The playing only occurs when people sit round the table together interacting with each other. The "three pillars" refers to what goes on DURING PLAY.

2. The downtime pillar/mode includes game-related things done during player downtime (e.g. char-gen, level-up, bookkeeping) as well as in-fiction things done during character downtime.

"In fiction" stuff that is done collaboratively during a game whilst character are between adventures is part of play, and is covered by the Three Pillars - usually social.

 

[FrozenNorth]

Sure. The "three pillars" refers to the stuff that is pretty much always part of the game. Metaphorically, pillars are something that are essential to hold up the edifice. Optional extras are great, but they aint pillars.

So, to torture this analogy further, moulding?

 

[Maxperson]

Domain management, treasury division, training, spell research, item/scroll/potion making, business interests, investments - none of these involve adventuring*. All are things done while out of the field, and thus fall under downtime.

Another major and fairly frequent downtime activity at the table, not yet really touched upon, is levelling up.

* - usually; and if-when they ever do the other three pillars/modes boot up.

Agreed.

Seeking immortality is most likely either itself an adventuring activity or will involve a lot of such.

I love shenanigans as much as anyone but I don't see it as its own pillar as there is no place or time where it's not overlapping at least one other pillar (if downtime is counted as a pillar). That said, I think it could almost count as its own mode of play under @Charlaquin 's model.

The pillars are of play, not specifically of adventuring and downtime is part of play. They apply there as well.

 

[Micah Sweet]

But world building is not. It's something only one of the participants does - the DM, and they can get it from a book. From the point of view of the players, they learn about the world via the exploration pillar.

Sure, lots of people enjoy worldbuilding, bit it's far from essential.

It's essential to me. I won't run a game without it, and actively dislike strictly by the book adventures as a player.

Not everything is from the perspective of the players, and their wants and needs are not more important than those of the DM.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Then you’re using the term “modes of play” differently than I am.

And it’s not specifically tied to any particular mode of play. I’d argue it’s not even really gameplay at all, it’s bookkeeping. Players might choose to speak in character while dividing treasure, perhaps acting out the interactions they imagine their characters having about how to divide said treasure, and that’s fine, but it’s not really gameplay. It’s just, like, an improv scene.

Social interaction is often in the form of improv scenes; shopping, for example. How can something like that not be considered play?

 

[Micah Sweet]

Things that are done as preparation, such as planning an adventure, worldbuilding, painting minis and character creation are not part of PLAYING D&D. The playing only occurs when people sit round the table together interacting with each other. The "three pillars" refers to what goes on DURING PLAY.

"In fiction" stuff that is done collaboratively during a game whilst character are between adventures is part of play, and is covered by the Three Pillars - usually social.

I really disagree. All of that outside the table stuff is absolutely part of play in my view. I feel your definition is too limiting for my tastes, and discourages fun parts of the game from receiving emphasis because in your view they're not, "essential".

 

[Paul Farquhar]

It's essential to me. I won't run a game without it, and actively dislike strictly by the book adventures as a player.

Not everything is from the perspective of the players, and their wants and needs are not more important than those of the DM.

Sure, there are lots of things that are important to certain players. But they are not the core of the game.

If you must have a fourth pillar, then it would be an empty one, like the fourth plinth in Trafalgar Square, to be filled with whatever the player wants.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

I really disagree. All of that outside the table stuff is absolutely part of play in my view. I feel your definition is too limiting for my tastes, and discourages fun parts of the game from receiving emphasis because in your view they're not, "essential".

It's part of the game, but it's not part of PLAY. I'm a teacher. This means I spend far more time preparing lessons and marking work than I do actually TEACHING. All that other stuff is essential but it's not playing D&D.

And the rules do not "neglect it" because the idea of "Three Pillars" does not define what is in the rulebooks. The "Three Pillars" is a recommendation of what should be incorporated into an actual session of playing D&D. It has nothing to do with what is or is not in the rulebooks.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Sure, there are lots of things that are important to certain players. But they are not the core of the game.

If you must have a fourth pillar, then it would be an empty one, like the fourth plinth in Trafalgar Square, to be filled with whatever the player wants.

Again, the players desires are not more important than the DMs in the vast majority of D&D-style play.

And the things I'm talking about were part of the games core in previous editions (and should be again I feel). WotC has actively pared down what D&D is about in order to focus on what will make them the most money.

 

[Micah Sweet]

It's part of the game, but it's not part of PLAY. I'm a teacher. This means I spend far more time preparing lessons and marking work than I do actually TEACHING. All that other stuff is essential but it's not playing D&D.

And the rules do not "neglect it" because the idea of "Three Pillars" does not define what is in the rulebooks. The "Three Pillars" is a recommendation of what should be incorporated into an actual session of playing D&D. It has nothing to do with what is or is not in the rulebooks.

I still see that stuff as part of play. Agree to disagree.

And the pillars philosophy may not define what's in the books, but it certainly puts a thumb on the scale regarding what WotC feels should be emphasized.