D&D 5E Only three pillars?

[Paul Farquhar]

Again, the players desires are not more important than the DMs in the vast majority of D&D-style play.

The DM is a player in this context.

And the things I'm talking about were part of the games core in previous editions (and should be again I feel). WotC has actively pared down what D&D is about in order to focus on what will make them the most money.

Of course. They are a business, it is their responsibility to maximise profits. Without profits, no one would be making D&D stuff.

 

[Micah Sweet]

The DM is a player in this context.

Of course. They are a business, it is their responsibility to maximise profits. Without profits, no one would be making D&D stuff.

I would argue that a business's responsibility is to  generate profits, not to  maximize them.

 

[jmartkdr2]

So, to torture this analogy further, moulding?

The flavor text that makes the pillars more than a bunch of numbers - descriptions of attacks, speaking in accents, talking about how you actually use a 10-foot-pole...

 

[Lanefan]

Things that are done as preparation, such as planning an adventure, worldbuilding, painting minis and character creation are not part of PLAYING D&D.

Character creation most certainly is. I'll give you the other three there.

The playing only occurs when people sit round the table together interacting with each other. The "three pillars" refers to what goes on DURING PLAY.

The game is bigger than just what goes on at the table; never mind that many player-downtime activities e.g. char-gen, level-up, etc. are often done while at the table with others anyway.

But even if you exclude these aspects, downtime as an in-play element is still a vital part of playing the game (even if not at your specific table).

"In fiction" stuff that is done collaboratively during a game whilst character are between adventures is part of play, and is covered by the Three Pillars - usually social.

A lot of downtime stuff isn't done collaboratively, however. Much of it involves individual characters getting on with or updating their non-adventuring lives (they do have lives outside adventuring, don't they?) and-or improving themselves through training, research, etc.

That said, some downtime activities are totally collaborative, an obvious example of which is designing and building a party base of operations.

 

[Charlaquin]

Yes it does, unless you are also tying your definition of gameplay to use of mechanics.

If there aren’t mechanics, it isn’t a game. You might be participating in freeform play, but not gameplay.

 

[Charlaquin]

Social interaction is often in the form of improv scenes; shopping, for example. How can something like that not be considered play?

Because an improv scene isn’t a game. Games have mechanics, goals, restrictions, and challenge.

 

[Lanefan]

Again, the players desires are not more important than the DMs in the vast majority of D&D-style play.

Truth be told, I'm focusing on player-side pillars/modes here. I think there's a whole different set for DMs which could probably be its own separate discussion.

And the things I'm talking about were part of the games core in previous editions (and should be again I feel).

Very much agree. Like 'em or hate 'em, training rules force the PCs to take some time off - i.e. downtime. Stronghold construction etc. might involve a bit of adventuring (clearing out the land you're going to use, for example) but most of it'll be downtime.

WotC has actively pared down what D&D is about in order to focus on what will make them the most money.

I'm not 100% sure this follows, however. I suspect the paring-down is more to make up for the space-wasting layout of their books, and some babies got thrown out with the bathwater.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Because an improv scene isn’t a game. Games have mechanics, goals, restrictions, and challenge.

I disagree. Playing D&D is the whole experience, whether you are currently using mechanics or not.

As I said above many/most aspects of social interaction are free form role-play. Your definition makes most of one of the pillars not part of the game.

 

[Lanefan]

If there aren’t mechanics, it isn’t a game. You might be participating in freeform play, but not gameplay.

Last I checked, it's called a Role-Playing Game. Freeform role-play falls completely under the purview of such a game. The mechanics are there to support and-or abstract those things that can't be roleplayed.

 

[ECMO3]

In D&D 5E the three pillars are combat, exploration, and social interaction.

Are there any other pillars to typical D&D-style play? In the old days we had things like domain management, mass combat, and seeking immortality.

Are there other pillars? If so, what are they? What other pillars should get attention?

In 1E I would say there was a stronghold pillar in high level play as characters got a keep or church or thieves guild etc to run.

I would also argue that "downtime" was not a traditional pillar in D&D as there originally was a 1:1 correlation between real down time and in-game down time and if you were not playing then your characters were either sleeping in the dungeon or on "downtime" doing nothing except spending gold and healing.