OOC - From the Outside

[doghead]

How do you propose I do that exactly? At this point I see no IC way to actually *resolve* the conflict without Khyrinnax either starting to talk or leaving. The best I can do is have Slice threaten and then we can have Trickle, Hawthorne (and eventually Needles) hold him back? That could get us back to the status quo, but the situation would be far from *resolved*... Do you want to have the Witching Troll interveene directly, Doghead? That could be interresting. I'll post something that will force resolution, whatever that ends up being.

For the record, Khyrinnax has been rude and angry (in answer to rude and angry, but still), obsessionnally secretive and, much worse in a roleplaying game, has plain refused to just try to explain his position. He's also refused Slice's 'proposals' to leave him be (for now) here and here. I.. tend to find his position completely incompatible with GE's stated desire to do all we can to avoid internal conflicts?

Also for the record, if Slice "leaves" because of this, I will, sadly enough, be leaving the game as well.

I have removed Slice from the scene (but not the game at this stage).

I am not sure what to say that hasn't already been said. But I will give it a go.

We come together to enjoy gaming. While it nice to see characters given 'life' in the game, IC logic and motivations never override the responsibility of all participants to contribute positively. The moment one participant gets to the point of saying "I'm not enjoying this game because of behaviour X" the appropriate response is "Sorry, I didn't realise that X was a problem. I'll stop doing it".

How that is managed isn't so important, but the intention to 'stop doing X' need to be clear and unconditional. And that wasn't the case here. So I stepped in to put and end to X, in this case Slice's aggressive harassment of Khyrinnax. Not because inter-party conflict is inherently bad, but because it was detracting from the ability of others to enjoy the game. It had stopped being an IC problem and become a group problem.

There are a number of ways we can proceed from here, BF. I am happy to discuss options. But first I need to know that you understand the problem and that its not going continue.

thotd

 

[Binder Fred]

I understand the problem quite well, Doghead. I'm just not so sure GE does. Seeing as the only person with a problem with x is the other person responsible for half of x, and also the person who has (stubbornly) refused to go with a course of action that has been repeatedly pointed out as a simple solution to x, my sympathies are indeed somewhat limited at this point. It takes two to tango, and if we really want the dancing to stop, then I truly think both partners must put effort in.

Make it another x if you will: "I do not enjoy having to forcefully prevent my character(s) from reacting to yours in a way that's natural and makes IC sense, and I will likely have to leave the game if I have to do it again."

As for practical IC solutions, realistically and to my mind, it hinges on demonstrating that Khyrinnax is not hiding anything of material import to Slice. This can be done by the man in question (unlikely), or by the Witching Troll Himself/Herself (off screen?), but it probably needs to be done or at least some inter-personal tension will remain between those two if they remain in the same party (and this is especially true if they are forced to coexist by some outside force, manu-military (which is an entirely acceptable outcome for me, interresting even, but clearly not for GE)). Slice's character is just not going to take *that* much of a U-turn in this short an amount of time...

Simplest version? Slice poofes back in with the "Knows Khyrinnax's background" attribute tacked on (maybe a geas on him too? That could be cool) and we go from there....

 

[GlassEye]

Revealing Khirynnax' backstory in this fashion is unacceptable to me. Khirynnax' concept has always been 'Mysterious Stranger' and if this was a problem should have been brought up during character/group discussion. If I had known Slice was going to be so aggressive and domineering I would have asked you to reconsider since I have no desire to explore that dynamic, and I would have withdrawn from the game if you were unwilling.

Once playing I had thought/hoped that Slice might give grudging respect to someone who 1) had the guts to stand up to him, 2) had a power he didn't understand, & 3) had an unknown connection to the powerful Witching Troll. Unfortunately, he has been unaffected by any of those considerations. As I see it, Slice is insisting on Khirynnax' submission; something I am as unwilling to accept as you seem to be in allowing Khirynnax to keep whatever secrets he might have.

And there is a difference between low level tension between characters based on a lack of information/trust and the in-your-face aggression one step away from violence that both of my characters have been subjected to from Slice. I can deal with the former, but have no interest in the latter.

 

[doghead]

I understand the problem quite well, Doghead.

No, it is fairly obvious that you don't. You don't get to have your character try and ride roughshod over another character and then blame them for not giving you what you want.

Nor am I going to enable the behaviour by undermining GE's right to play Khirynnax as he wishes. It is up to GE to decide what, when and to whom he reveals Khirynnax's background and motivations.

As for the geas ... do you mean on Khirynnax? That is kind of outragous. The only geas I would consider would be on Slice and I am not sure that I want to go down the path of trying to force people into be considerate.

BF, I am a bit over this and just want to get back to the game. I have updated the the IC thread.

thotd

 

[Binder Fred]

I did mean a geas on Slice (obviously). Traditional geas are actually quite complex and (usually) powerful things, with conditions for when/on whom you can lay then, how you can fulfill them, and usually have to be limited (and/or balanced by something else) AND flawed in some way, if known examples are to be trusted. That's what makes them interesting, in my book at least. So "thrall" is not really what I mean when I say "geas".

To my mind, what we want IC is to foster at least working trust between those two so that they can build on it with shared experiences. YMMV, of course.

Let's see where this leads...

What are you thoughts on the Witching Troll potentially revealing (parts of) Khyrinnax's background to Slice, GE?


EDIT= Although, now that you mention it, a shared geas on both of them might be fun too. With GE's consent, of course.... Shared damage, maybe?

 

[doghead]

I did mean a geas on Slice (obviously).

OK. Sorry. I jumped to a conclusion.

Traditional geas are actually quite complex and (usually) powerful things, ...

I am not adverse to the idea of a geas in principle. But as you said, they can be complex and almost always are flawed in some ways. I wouldn't consider using a geas as a means to compel a player to play (or not play) a character in a particular way. There is too much potential for disagreement over interpretation of the geas, over what is and isn't allowed. The player has to buy into the idea of the geas, it has to add to the experience not detract from it. As for the term 'thrall', yeah, it was just a bit of shorthand for a character on a short leash.

To my mind, what we want IC is to foster at least working trust between those two so that they can build on it with shared experiences. YMMV, of course.

No, here we are in agreement. The trust also needs to extend to the table; everyone has the right to feel to be confident that the boundaries of their character will be respected. If we can re-establish that to everyone's satisfaction, I am more than happy to see the return Slice to the party. Let see what we can do.

What are you thoughts on the Witching Troll potentially revealing (parts of) Khyrinnax's background to Slice, GE?

This one is up to you GE. What you choose to reveal, if anything, or how true it is up to you. As it is for everyone.

EDIT= Although, now that you mention it, a shared geas on both of them might be fun too. With GE's consent, of course.... Shared damage, maybe?

I suspect that we need to get back to walking again before we start running. But weirdly, this does seem kind of interesting. Back pocket for now.

thotd

 

[GlassEye]

To my mind, what we want IC is to foster at least working trust between those two so that they can build on it with shared experiences. YMMV, of course.

Let's see where this leads...

What are you thoughts on the Witching Troll potentially revealing (parts of) Khyrinnax's background to Slice, GE?

Fully agreed with the first part. And to help foster that working trust I would accept revealing parts of Khirynnax's background to Slice. At least enough to enable Slice to accept Khirynnax but without ruining Slice's bond with him.

EDIT= Although, now that you mention it, a shared geas on both of them might be fun too. With GE's consent, of course.... Shared damage, maybe?

I suspect that we need to get back to walking again before we start running. But weirdly, this does seem kind of interesting. Back pocket for now.

Some sort of shared geas has a strange appeal to me as well.

What do you all think of some sort of shared vision experience between Slice and Khirynnax incited by the Witching Troll and touching on the bonds each has for the other? So Khirynnax would need to see something that humanizes Slice and also hints at the danger that destroyed his house and hunts him still (if that's actually the case, I don't remember). Slice would see whatever Binder Fred thinks Slice would need to see plus a bit that shows Khirynnax has been manipulated by the Witching Troll as much if not more than the others and is no more his tool than anyone else in the group.

It might be interesting to have each of us write the vision scene for the other. That would give each of us control over what is revealed about our characters. In my case, I would need to know specifically what Slice needs to know to work with Khirynnax so that it could be incorporated. If that doesn't sound feasible then maybe we could give doghead ideas on what we think should be revealed for him to incorporate. I'm open to other ideas, too.

 

[Binder Fred]

Hit another busy patch (and yes, it's yet another public holiday ). Should have something for you guys, if not tonight, then tomorrow morning.

No problems with the visions thing. Good idea.

 

[doghead]

Happy to help. Feel free to PM me if needed.

In the meantime, I would like to continue with the other part of the game. You can find my last post here

thotd

 

[GlassEye]

Ok, this is what I came up with in terms of a vision. doghead, take a look and feel free to make whatever changes you think necessary. If we even use it. <shrug>

[sblock=Vision]Roots and vines.

At first Slice couldn’t tell what he was seeing except a profusion of writhing plant-life until the vines irised away, beyond his sight, to expose a blur of images, a hundred changing turns of a kaleidoscopic life with one face.

“Yes,” said the familiar, maddening voice. It spoke with no hesitation.

The shadow moved and Slice could tell that it was well pleased and yet, it was exactly what it knew would be spoken. It circled the edge of the grove and snagged a delicate strand of spider silk that gleamed like silver in the moonlight. As the shadow moved closer to the elf the web unraveled. Shadow wrapped the strand of silver around the elf’s finger.

“There are three in the forest beyond. Bring them here. Wind the strand and beware that you don’t break it for it will bring you here.”

---

The baby was lying in a nest of silk and waving its tiny elfin hands and feet at nothing. A crone, one of the bent and broken fey and ugly as nothing Slice had ever seen before, uncurled a gnarled finger, spit upon the fingertip, and touched the spittle to the baby’s eyes. The image fractured as if he were seeing it from two vantage points: the finger reached towards his eye, dripping with some viscous fluid, and touched the ball of his eye. His vision blazed and faded as he blinked his eye clear though he knew something was there, deeper than skin, deeper than bone, some essential element that he could see if he only focused, that he needed to grasp, to drink in and understand.

From the outside, the crone. He could see past the veil of her skin. She was rotten stump-wood carved into the semblance of a creature and made to dance like the wooden poppets at a market day faire animated by twitching strings controlled by…

---

“Who are you? What do you seek from me?” demanded a low, husky voice at odds with the rumbling crash Slice expected. The voice emanated from a figure concealed by a shifting mass of shadow as the stars wheeled overhead painting circles in the night sky. Only his own vision of the figure was shadowed, through his borrowed eyes he saw a feminine figure of carved and polished wood yet able to move with serpentine grace. Slice thought to answer her questions but another voice spoke before he could.

“Khirynnax, born of the Great Forest and a son of the Stinking Mire. I seek the secrets of the aether, the animating force of the fey.”

“And will you serve me a year and a day for what you desire?”

The moon, the same moon that gazed down on Slice and his companions as they fled through the wood, stopped in its track awaiting the answer.

---

Scene after scene flashed by, most too quickly to catch more than a fleeting glimpse. Each glimpse, however, revealed a root or vine, plucking, prodding, pushing some unknown agent to alter the course of Khirynnax’s life until it flowed in the channel dictated by each root and vine that led back to that grove of shifting shadow where the stars wheeled in the sky.
[/sblock]