Pathfinder 1E Opinions on Pathfinder

[Vyvyan Basterd]

So if you need to be saved, then you may need to settle for 4E.

Rude and uncalled for, but with your sig I'm sure no one is surprised.

Paizo, whether you like them or not, whether you use them or not, had the right way. Magzines canceled? Gee well hey here's a list of options, in cluding a new product for you to transition.

Paizo did not suffer from the loss of the magazines. They understood the business deal they made with WotC from the beginning. They are not the helpless little company that WotC stamped all over as you surmise. I'd go so far to say that, based on commentary from Erik Mona and the direction Paizo took after the "incident," Paizo benefited from losing the magazines. Erik spoke about the issues of being in the business of finding advertisers over that of just designing games. The magazine industry is dying. Online is the way to go for that media. They could have started their own magazine if that was a lucrative venture. IMO, I believe WotC intentionally acted as the "bad guys" in the decision to end the magazines to help protect their friends at Paizo. If the flak from the cancellation of the magazines had fallen on their shoulders they might not have recovered. WotC could withstand the hit as the larger company.

 

[Vyvyan Basterd]

Again a bit off topic but pathfinder has the DC's listed in the statblock.

Adult Blue Dragon CR 13
XP 25,600
LE Huge dragon (earth)
Init +4; Senses dragon senses; Perception +22
Aura electricity (5 ft., 1d6 elect.), frightful presence (180 ft., DC 21)
Defense
AC 28, touch 8, flat-footed 28 (+20 natural, –2 size)
hp 184 (16d12+80)
Fort +15, Ref +10, Will +13
DR 5/magic; Immune electricity, paralysis, sleep; SR 24
Offense
Speed 40 ft., burrow 20 ft., fly 200 ft. (poor)
Melee bite +23 (2d8+12), 2 claws +22 (2d6+8), 2 wings +20 (1d8+4), tail slap +20 (2d6+12)
Space 15 ft.; Reach 10 ft. (15 ft. with bite)
Special Attacks breath weapon (100-ft. line, DC 23, 12d8 electricity), crush, desert thirst (DC 21)
Spell-Like Abilities (CL 16th)
At will—ghost sound (DC 13), minor image (DC 14), ventriloquism (DC 14)
Spells Known (CL 5th)
2nd (5/day)—invisibility, resist energy
1st (7/day)—alarm, mage armor, shield, true strike
0 (at will)—arcane mark, detect magic, mage hand, mending, read magic, resistance
Statistics
Str 27, Dex 10, Con 21, Int 16, Wis 17, Cha 16
Base Atk +16; CMB +26; CMD 36 (40 vs. trip)
Feats Combat Casting, Dazzling Display, Deadly Stroke, Hover, Improved Initiative, Multiattack, Shatter Defenses, Weapon Focus (bite)
Skills Appraise +22, Fly +11, Intimidate +22, Knowledge (local) +22, Knowledge (geography) +22, Perception +22, Spellcraft +22, Stealth +11, Survival +22
Languages Auran, Common, Draconic, Giant
SQ sound imitation

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Basically, the PF Bestiary gives you complete stat blocks for all age groups of dragons (that's a lot), and then references the SQ once:

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Special Abilities
Desert Thirst (Su) A blue dragon can cast create water at will (CL equals its HD). Alternatively, it can destroy an equal amount of liquid in a 10-foot burst. Unattended liquids are instantly reduced to sand. Liquid-based magic items (such as potions) and items in a creature's possession must succeed on a Will save (DC equal to the dragon's breath weapon) or be destroyed.
Electricity Aura (Su) An adult blue dragon is surrounded by an aura of electricity. Creatures within 5 feet take 1d6 points of electricity damage at the beginning of the dragon's turn. An old dragon's aura extends to 10 feet. An ancient dragon's damage increases to 2d6.
Mirage (Su) An old or older blue dragon can make itself appear to be in two places at once as a free action for a number of rounds per day equal to its Hit Dice. This ability functions as project image but the dragon can use its breath weapon through the mirage.
Sandstorm (Su) As a standard action, a great wyrm blue dragon can create a sandstorm centered on itself with a radius of 1,200 feet. Creatures other than the dragon inside the storm take 2d6 points of damage per round in addition to the normal sandstorm penalties (Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook 431). This sandstorm lasts for up to 1 hour, but can be dismissed by the dragon as a free action.
Sound Imitation (Ex) A very young or older blue dragon can mimic any voice or sound it has heard by making a successful Bluff check against a listener's Sense Motive check.
Spell-Like Abilities (Sp) A blue dragon gains the following spell-like abilities, usable at will upon reaching the listed age category. Young—ghost sound; Juvenile—minor image; Adult—ventriloquism; Old—hallucinatory terrain; Ancient—veil; Great wyrm—mirage arcana.
Storm Breath (Su) An ancient or older blue dragon can use its breath weapon to create a storm of lightning. This functions as call lightning storm, but the damage is equal to the dragon's breath weapon. The dragon can call down 1 bolt per round as a free action for 1d6 rounds. The save DC is equal to the dragon's breath weapon DC. Additional uses of this ability extend the duration by an additional 1d6 rounds.

DCs are listed, I stand corrected. Where are the Effects, Range, Area of Effect, etc? Not self-contained, that was my point. The hyper-linked SRD thing changes alot though if you have access to a computer at the table.

Really though any GM regardless of system should look at his creatures before running them.

I can use any 4E creature on the fly by cracking open the book and scanning the stat block for a minute, tops, for even the most complicated creatures. You do sacrifice complexity, but a creature is self-contained.

 

[billd91]

Paizo did not suffer from the loss of the magazines. They understood the business deal they made with WotC from the beginning. They are not the helpless little company that WotC stamped all over as you surmise. I'd go so far to say that, based on commentary from Erik Mona and the direction Paizo took after the "incident," Paizo benefited from losing the magazines. Erik spoke about the issues of being in the business of finding advertisers over that of just designing games. The magazine industry is dying. Online is the way to go for that media. They could have started their own magazine if that was a lucrative venture. IMO, I believe WotC intentionally acted as the "bad guys" in the decision to end the magazines to help protect their friends at Paizo. If the flak from the cancellation of the magazines had fallen on their shoulders they might not have recovered. WotC could withstand the hit as the larger company.

I seriously doubt that WotC intentionally acted as the "bad guys" to save Paizo. I doubt "saving" Paizo from the magazine industry factored at all in their calculations.

But from what I've read, losing the magazines was the cause of plenty of consternation and stress around Paizo and it's through their hard work that they've made something greater of themselves as a result. That's to their credit.
But I will also say that losing the magazines appears to have had one result that I'm sure WotC didn't intend - according to Lisa Stevens, there was NO WAY they were going to accept the terms of the new licensing and risk having someone else have control over their work again.

 

[Hunter In Darkness]

The thing is some of us find that to be a dragon, a real dragon. While 4e dragons are seen as just big lizards not real dragon, they do nothing interesting.

While the flip side 4e folks see the PF dragon as over complex and the 4e dragon as just right for what they want

Which is fine, if you hate or dislike 3.5/pathfinder simply do not play it. If 4e is your game then enjoy.

 

[Hunter In Darkness]

I can use any 4E creature on the fly by cracking open the book and scanning the stat block for a minute, tops, for even the most complicated creatures. You do sacrifice complexity, but a creature is self-contained.

I see that more as a flaw then a boon, it does not IMHO promote thinking, creativity and preparation in a GM. But as I said if it fits your game style cool, it does not fit mine

 

[Vyvyan Basterd]

I seriously doubt that WotC intentionally acted as the "bad guys" to save Paizo. I doubt "saving" Paizo from the magazine industry factored at all in their calculations.

Sure, it may be JFK tinfoil hat thinking on my part, but the decision-makers at WotC had a close working relationship with the Paizo staff and were friends with many of them.

But from what I've read, losing the magazines was the cause of plenty of consternation and stress around Paizo and it's through their hard work that they've made something greater of themselves as a result. That's to their credit.

I'm not taking away anything Paizo has accomplished on their own. I'm not saying that WotC made them a success. But Erik Mona had stated publicly that he didn't like being in the magazine business. Before anyone asks I'm not going to dig through old threads or editorials to find this so take my statement with however big a grain of salt you wish.

Back on topic: The crew at Paizo seems to have made some improvements on the game. I wish them well and hope I get the opportunity to play Pathfinder. They would have to make more changes for me to personally want to run Pathfinder.

 

[Vyvyan Basterd]

The thing is some of us find that to be a dragon, a real dragon. While 4e dragons are seen as just big lizards not real dragon, they do nothing interesting.

While the flip side 4e folks see the PF dragon as over complex and the 4e dragon as just right for what they want

I already said I don't believe 4E dragons to be interesting enough. What I would like is something usuable out of the box that has the complexity of a "real" dragon.

I see that more as a flaw then a boon, it does not IMHO promote thinking, creativity and preparation in a GM. But as I said if it fits your game style cool, it does not fit mine

So on-the-fly use DMs are stupid, uncreative and unprepared? Nice! I cannot agree with you on any of these. Just because a DM doesn't do his work before the game, like you apparently do, does not mean that he is not thinking about the flow of his game, using creativity to challenge and entertain the players, or that he wasn't prepared for certain happenstances.

 

[ShinHakkaider]

This would still take me 15 minutes. You must be more tech savvy. I mean your searching a database of spells for DCs, effects, range, etc. just to use a stock monster. A stock 4E monster is self-contained and usable immediately.

It has nothing to do with being more tech saavy. If you understand how a hyperlink works (which I'm assuming that you do. youre on the internet and have probably clicked on a link before. ) then you're not really worrying about searching through a database of spells and other special abilities because Paizo hyperlinks their PDF's.

For example, in the PDF of the core rulebook, every instance of Perform skill is hyperlinked. So if you want to know what the Perform skill does, just click on the link and Acrobat will take you to the Perform skill page. The same thing with the spells and special abilities in a monster stat block in their Bestiary.
Like I said it's actually quicker to cut and paste from the PDF's to get what I want and I can get it done in quicker than 15min that way.

 

[Hunter In Darkness]

So on-the-fly use DMs are stupid, uncreative and unprepared? Nice! I cannot agree with you on any of these. Just because a DM doesn't do his work before the game, like you apparently do, does not mean that he is not thinking about the flow of his game, using creativity to challenge and entertain the players, or that he wasn't prepared for certain happenstances.

If that is how you wish to view what I said, so be it.

 

[Vyvyan Basterd]

It has nothing to do with being more tech saavy. If you understand how a hyperlink works (which I'm assuming that you do. youre on the internet and have probably clicked on a link before. ) then you're not really worrying about searching through a database of spells and other special abilities because Paizo hyperlinks their PDF's.

Yes. I did not know about the hyperlinked PDFs. This was probably the greatest advance I've seen from the Pathfinder team. It would cut down flip time somewhat between games. It would be ultimately useful if you had access to a computer during the game (I don't).