OPPORTUNITY ACTION Doubts - Help

[Dr_Sage]

Good evening fellows!

We had a serious doubt when our Ranger was starting his Spitting Cobra Stance last game session.

I would not like to discuss the usefullness of the power or how good it is, but the official rules.

The DM and a friend decided that if the enemies acted togueder the Ranger could only shoot one of them. Say for example that 5 orcs charged the Ranger in the same initiative (becuse they rolled the same init number or becuse some delayed action and coordinated leadership).

I personally thing that the power says otherwise, basically acting togueder does not mean acting on the same "combatant’s turn".

The power states that:

"Until the stance ends, you can make a ranged basic
attack as an opportunity action against any enemy (...)" (MP 47)

Here comes from the definition of Oportunity action (PHB 268):

OPPORTUNITY ACTION​

✦

​

​

Once per Combatant’s Turn: You can take no​

more than one opportunity action on each other

combatant’s turn. You can’t take an opportunity

action on your own turn.​

​

So I think that the Stance could work against many enemies, no matter if they are acting on the same initiative. And I also believe that doing so would open a weird preceddent where some NPCs or PCs could counteract some well defined defense.​

The best example I could think right now: Imagine all the melee PCs delaying actions and surrounding a Red Dragon in the same initiative, so the dragon could not use his tail to hit/push them. ​

Here comes the description of the dragon power to help the lazy fellows like myself: (MM 82)​

" Tail Strike (immediate reaction, when an enemy moves to a​

position where it flanks the red dragon; at-will)

The dragon attacks the enemy with its tail: reach 2; +12 vs. Reflex; 1d10 + 6 damage, and the target is pushed 1 square. ​

"​

Considerations? Official rulings or erratas?​

Thanks in advance!​

 

[HarbingerX]

Quickest answer is that having the same initiative number doesn't mean that they all act simultaneously - everyone still takes their turn one-by-one. You and monsters have opportunities and powers to act during other people's turns; initiative doesn't matter.

 

[IanB]

Orcs have to take their turns one at a time just like players, even if they have the same initiative roll.

 

[Flipguarder]

See here's something I've never understood. Why do people think that at any point two combatants can share an initiative? No option in any book allows this

 

[Mort_Q]

Ranger was robbed.

 

[Josep]

I agree with the previous responses. The only way around it RAW is to ready actions: The orc readies an action to charge PlayerX when the orc leader moves forward. However, using readied actions in this way can lead to a lot of issues (e.g. bypassing fighter's combat challenge). I'm not a fan of recommending readied actions as a counter, but it does work RAW.

 

[RyvenCedrylle]

Let's not oversimplify.
1) If two enemies are acting on the same initiative count (assuming that's possible), they each have their own turn and thus would be subject to a ranged basic attack.

2) Where this would change would be if an enemy gave another enemy movement as a standard action - say, shift 3 - and then took its own move action. Here, you have two characters moving during one combatant's turn and so you would have to pick which one gets the free arrow or hatchet or whatever.

Similarly, if you happen to be the unfortunate soul against whom 3 orcs have readied charges triggered by a fourth orc also charging, then you're out of luck. Those readied actions are immediate reactions occuring on the final orc's actual turn so you only get to smack one as they bum rush you. Choose wisely.

 

[Klaus]

Hey, hey!

I'm the friend in question who agreed with the DM, and this was the thread that led to the DM ruling the way he did: http://www.enworld.org/forum/d-d-4th-edition-rules/258006-feat-question.html



One thing to note: before this, the DM was rolling initiative for each monster group (grunts got one, leaders got another, etc). Now he's rolling *per creature*, so readying becomes a tactic, not a default thing.

 

[Dr_Sage]

Hey, hey!

I'm the friend in question who agreed with the DM, and this was the thread that led to the DM ruling the way he did: http://www.enworld.org/forum/d-d-4th-edition-rules/258006-feat-question.html



One thing to note: before this, the DM was rolling initiative for each monster group (grunts got one, leaders got another, etc). Now he's rolling *per creature*, so readying becomes a tactic, not a default thing.

Hehehehehehe Actually its a Daily power.. not a Feat my noobish friend

So basically so far, most people agrees that delay would not work but ready woud? Poor red dragon...

I am worried about the many cheesy and cheap examples were given over there.

Anyway I see the point of readying actions: it is generally more coordinated and less effective individually (few powers/actions includes a move and an attack). And I agree with the "hivemind" issue.

Actually I think a passive Insight check (or active with minor action) would be in order to allow PCs to perceive enemies readying actions and their intents.


What do you guys think?

 

[LightPhoenix]

I think that the paragraph on p.38 of the DMG is unfortunately misleading. While they all have the same initiative, they still take separate turns. So the Ranger still gets an OA against each one, RAW.