D&D 5E Optimizing for more grit…

[Warpiglet-7]

Now that the hardcovers are finally reasonable priced on DriveThru, I say do it!

I love the art actually and aesthetic…

 

[Bill Zebub]

I'm going to have to look at Dragonbane for that reason alone.

As a DM, I would love to have monster choices be determined by a die roll, so that I don't have to make those decisions.

Update: I downloaded the Dragonbane free starter PDF, and I gotta say, if I weren't all-in on Shadowdark, I'd probably give this a whirl. I like it.

 

[Bill Zebub]

This is why something like monster roles is such a great idea. Do a custom chart for each monster role. It's an ambusher, use this chart. It's a skirmisher, use this chart. Then make a set of custom d6s. Say color coded to role.

Yeah, symbols on dice are weird and hard to pull off. Typically the dice are also larger to compensate. Looking at my Doctor Who Rory's Story Cubes, they are about 25% larger than your standard d6.

I'm not sure the table for each type would work for me. It's not just the general tactic, but the monster-specific tactic. For example, one of the monsters in the Dragonbane starter set is

Spoiler: GMs only!

a Wight, and the table entries are "Unholy Roar!" "Dreadful Gaze!" "Hand of the Dead!" "Sweeping Attack!" "Crippling Cold!" and "Power Attack!" (yes, all with exclamation points...)

. I wouldn't want those reduced to generic descriptors.

 

[ECMO3]

So up front: I cut my teeth on 1e. Loved it. Liked and played 3e for a while: at home now with 5e…

I just got (and love!!!) barrowmaze for 5e.

I would like to increase the grit in my 5e game for a this old school dungeon. Suggestions welcome save one: I am not running a retroclone nor switching systems at this time. Might get into dragonslayer one day?

What can I do to make this as old school/harrowing as possible? Use optional rules for healing and spell recovery was one thought…

Suggestions about this or other things welcome…

The optional rules for grit work well IME (long rests count as short rests) it takes a long time (week?) to get a long rest.

That is very effective in games I played. Most players don't like it though.

 

[Warpiglet-7]

The optional rules for grit work well IME (long rests count as short rests) it takes a long time (week?) to get a long rest.

That is very effective in games I played. Most players don't like it though.

It is funny…even as a player I see it. Once you have new toys and widgets and hat you get used to, it’s hard to get rid of them or lose power.

I am think my approach will be more o have this the de facto situation with the rules with in game rationale; barrowmaze won’t allow normal healing and rest due to its evil magic. Similarly, I am thinking cantrips cannot function there but they can in town…

 

[Shiroiken]

Some things I've used in the past to varying degrees of success:

• Healer's Kits no longer have an ability attached. They're used with the Medicine skill to stabilize, spending one use per success. This makes the Medicine skill more useful and prevents auto-stabilizing without magic.
• Death Saves no longer restore HP on a 20, but instead count as 2 successes. Do not roll the Death Saves until the character is interacted with, increasing tension as all of them are rolled at once. A character might already be dead or stablized by the time they're healed.
• Death by massive damage occurs when the damage exceeds 0 by their Con score, or if they take damage equal to their Con score while at 0 HP. This makes healing before 0 HP extremely important.
• Darkvision doesn't work while within Bright Light, mimicking Infravision from AD&D. It requires a Bonus Action to switch between them. This means that mixed groups will generally use the same light sources.
• Dim Light has penalties already! Disadvantage to Perception and other sight based checks are really crippling during exploration. A group that goes all Darkvision will be ambushed frequently, as well as trigger traps.
• Travel Rules are useful for more than overland. Characters have to state what they're doing, and I suggest breaking up Looking For Danger and Looking for Traps. Characters that are searching for traps, making a map, or anything else are automatically surprised by sneaking enemies.
• Equipment needs to be tracked, including Container Capacity. Most characters cannot carry even half of what they do by RAW, but most DMs overlook it. Containers are pretty limited, and carrying containers takes hands that aren't using shields, weapons, or casting spells.
• Resting takes longer. Short Rests take 8 hours and Long Rests take a week of downtime. This keeps the party having to return to civilization, which then allows the denizens of the dungeon to adjust to the party's incursions.

 

[Warpiglet-7]

Some things I've used in the past to varying degrees of success:

• Healer's Kits no longer have an ability attached. They're used with the Medicine skill to stabilize, spending one use per success. This makes the Medicine skill more useful and prevents auto-stabilizing without magic.
• Death Saves no longer restore HP on a 20, but instead count as 2 successes. Do not roll the Death Saves until the character is interacted with, increasing tension as all of them are rolled at once. A character might already be dead or stablized by the time they're healed.
• Death by massive damage occurs when the damage exceeds 0 by their Con score, or if they take damage equal to their Con score while at 0 HP. This makes healing before 0 HP extremely important.
• Darkvision doesn't work while within Bright Light, mimicking Infravision from AD&D. It requires a Bonus Action to switch between them. This means that mixed groups will generally use the same light sources.
• Dim Light has penalties already! Disadvantage to Perception and other sight based checks are really crippling during exploration. A group that goes all Darkvision will be ambushed frequently, as well as trigger traps.
• Travel Rules are useful for more than overland. Characters have to state what they're doing, and I suggest breaking up Looking For Danger and Looking for Traps. Characters that are searching for traps, making a map, or anything else are automatically surprised by sneaking enemies.
• Equipment needs to be tracked, including Container Capacity. Most characters cannot carry even half of what they do by RAW, but most DMs overlook it. Containers are pretty limited, and carrying containers takes hands that aren't using shields, weapons, or casting spells.
• Resting takes longer. Short Rests take 8 hours and Long Rests take a week of downtime. This keeps the party having to return to civilization, which then allows the denizens of the dungeon to adjust to the party's incursions.

Do you have a container or inventory system you recommend? You like that idea a lot.

Same with bakers kit…like the idea of using up bandages and salves…

 

[Shiroiken]

Do you have a container or inventory system you recommend? You like that idea a lot.

Same with bakers kit…like the idea of using up bandages and salves…

I honestly leave it to the players to track. When I'm a player, I just make sure to mark where everything is. Here's an example from my last character:

Carried Equipment (50/100/150 – 140.5 lbs.)
Worn/Carried (29 lb): Studded Leather Armor (10 lb), Component Pouch (2 lb), Fine Clothes (6 lb), Light Crossbow (5 lb), Crossbow Case (1 lb), Backpack (5 lb)
Belt & Baldric (7 lb): 3x Dagger (1 lb), 4x pouch (1 lb)
Crossbow Bolt Case (1.5 lb): 20 bolts
Backpack (30 /30 lb) Bedroll (7 lb), Book of Lore (5 lb), Fine Clothes (6 lb), Mess Kit (1 lb), 2x Slung Sack (0.5 lb), 5x Rations (2 lb)
Sack 1 (30/30 lb): 15x Rations (2 lb)
Sack 2 (30/30 lb): 15x Rations (2 lb)
Pouch 1 - Silk (6/6 lb): coins (4 lb), Acid Vial (1 lb) , Alchemist Fire (1 lb)
Pouch 2 - Leather (1/6 lb): Pipe, 4x lb Pipeweed, 10x Requiem Clay, 3x Requiem Bliss, 1 lb Opium
Pouch 3 - Cloth (0/6 lb): Ink vial, Ink Pen, Blotting Sand Bag, Small Knife, 10x Chalk (various color), 10x parchment, 3x signet rings, 5x sealing wax
Pouch 4 - Cloth (6/6 lb): Holy Water (1 lb), 5x Potion of Healing (1 lb)

My DM was permissive, allowing me to tie my 2 sacks to the backpack, but you don't have to do the same. After each bolded section, I have the listed weight and capacity, so I can just total each of those for the final total at the top. I start with what I wear and carry, which then lists the containers I have. This character had a backpack, 2 sacks tied to the backpack, and 4 pouches. I listed the different types of pouches, because I would want them to be quickly identifiable. Pouch 3 technically carries a slew of things that don't have a listed weight, but I decided to only carry those things in it (bulk adds up, even with small things). As you can see, a low str character still needed 7 containers to carry near maximum carrying capacity; A high str character would need a lot more.

We use Google Docs to track our characters, so it was pretty easy to update them during play. An excel format could also be good, but you have to be careful since you'll duplicate some information (backpack as an item has a weight, backpack as a container is just a place-marker). While not a simple as the old pencil-and-paper days of AD&D, it helps keep the stuff the players carry under control.

 

[DEFCON 1]

A couple other ideas...

One... do not play with more than four players and only allow one of them to play a PC that has healing magic. In fact, if you only allow the Core Four classes using the Basic Rules subclasses (one of each class), you will make things much tougher for the players.

Two... remove cantrips from all casters and shrink the spell lists down to only the spells that were available in say the Moldvay Basic game. So for instance... your Wizard player would only have the following spells on their spell list to choose from:

Obviously you would have to do a little editing to these lists to swap out the spells that don't exist in 5E-- say taking out Ventriloquism and putting in something like Identify instead... but if you really want grittiness, fewer spell options at each level could certainly help accomplish that.

 

[bloodtide]

Some that I do:

1.Shift away from making the game about the characters and make it about the PLAYERS. Drop the utter nonsense of "oh the darkness is so scary your character gets a -2 to charisma rolls" type thing......and really scare your players. OR any other emotion.

2.Drop the idea of fairness and balance.

3.Drop the idea of the players being given free information about the game and asking them to then role play with it. Give them nothing.

4.Drop the idea that any information the players/PCs get is 100% always a True Fact.

5.When in game rules are used to get information...it should be vague, slight, confusing and mysterious. As with #4.

6.Drop the default PG rating of D&D and go at least 'spooky' PG-13 or R. You want, at least Goosebumps, Scooby Do, Supernatural, Buffy, Angel, Charmed, Sabrina, Stranger Things levels.

5E has a default 'super hero' feel....like Hulk or Thor or Iron Man feel nothing walking into the crypt of death. You want way more Indiana Jones, Alien and Horror movie vibe.

7.Tweak the background atmosphere. 5E has none or very little of this.....so add spooky strange sights and sounds and effects. Even just a simple 'tree that bleeds blood' can throw players off (and remember they can't just 'know' about it).

8.Tweak encounters. A room full of spiders can be fun for some players....but you might need to add in game rule effects too. Along the lines of the old and new Hazards.

9.Use much more custom or at least unknown to the players monsters, creatures, spells, etc.

10.Keep track of resources.

You should be able to get a game going close to say the movie 'Bone Tomahawk' in no time.....