D&D General Orc and Pie, Redux

[Oofta]

@Oofta Surely there's a way to use a hammer (Dwarven returning?) to throw at him with money on it and snag the pie with the handle in a completely safe fashion, isn't there?

Talk about a trick question! Do you really think I'd risk getting gnome on my favorite hammer? Never going to happen.

 

[jasper]

This is peanuts. Really Dolly Madison is out to establish some food safety rules and Sara Lee orc is running an off the books pie operation. Juilian is their look out. Duncan Hines a rogue is in the pay of the Lucky Leaf bakery and has not decided to take sides. Libby is worrying if someone is going to make them change their label. The guards are Mighty Fine at their jobs but the National union of pie, cookie, and tarts are upset with them. This is a Sure Nuff cause to start a fight.
Ok tldr
It is Custard pie and Chef Boy r D is about start a pie fight to with the pcs.

 

[wingsandsword]

Side note: what's this "right to life and property?" Is the orc noble?

No, but apparently it's WotC's new policy that 21st century social and cultural values (including modern concepts of gender identity and gender roles and racial and ethnic diversity and tolerance) are a presumed constant in all D&D settings, so presumably that now extends to a modern understanding of basic civil rights.

 

[RangerWickett]

No, but apparently it's WotC's new policy that 21st century social and cultural values (including modern concepts of gender identity and gender roles and racial and ethnic diversity and tolerance) are a presumed constant in all D&D settings, so presumably that now extends to a modern understanding of basic civil rights.

Or, I dunno, having been reminded once again that internalized racism is pretty damaging to hundreds of millions of people, folks just think that games where you look at a person's race, say, "Yup, he's one of the bad ones," and then can get away with guilt-free killing, make for lazy storytelling and bad ethics, even when those races aren't paired to reality.

I know folks are salty that they're being told to be more conscientious, but you're making a straw man.

 

[toucanbuzz]

Well first, I'd give Monte Cook his due:

Next, you forgot the hook: why players want the pie. By default, it should be a good pie.

Then, as a player, I'd have to complain I'm being railroaded because you've predetermined for me how I should play this adventure and possibly an alignment straightjacket. So I'd remove that part and leave it to players to determine how they'll get the pie. In Cook's adventure, the synopsis exists because for most players, the easiest way to get the pie is to kill the orc and take it. But, perhaps an illusion or distraction or sleep spell, or offering him a bribe, will work. Need to leave it open-ended. And, if I like this enough as a player, I'm going to want "further adventures." You need some ideas for that.

Then, I'll sit back and see if this thread keeps its tone or quickly descends into angry commentary over social change.

 

[jasper]

If there is hook in the pie toucanbuzz then it a fish pie.

 

[wingsandsword]

Or, I dunno, having been reminded once again that internalized racism is pretty damaging to hundreds of millions of people, folks just think that games where you look at a person's race, say, "Yup, he's one of the bad ones," and then can get away with guilt-free killing, make for lazy storytelling and bad ethics, even when those races aren't paired to reality.

I know folks are salty that they're being told to be more conscientious, but you're making a straw man.

Or, people like to have at least one thing in their life where they aren't having modern day politics thrown in their face.

I play D&D to get away from real-world problems, not to have them constantly brought up.

It's a fantasy world. Orcs are usually evil because they have strong tendencies towards evil because they were created whole-cloth by an evil god a few thousand years before, and live in a culture that venerates that evil god. Orcs aren't humans. The idea of trying to transpose modern-day 21st century American gender/racial/cultural politics on a fantasy world. . .frankly makes me not want to play D&D, or at least not want to play it with people who seem to want to shoehorn in talk about modern social issues into every conversation.

. . .and it doesn't feel like a strawman when compared to all the discussions on here where people are getting offended by a 35 year old sourcebook, or calling any D&D setting that is in any way based on, a pastiche of, or inspired by any real-world culture problematic. It seems like the exact same thing. . .people taking a fun escapist hobby and sucking the fun out of it.

I'm frustrated at trying to turn back to gaming as a hobby as an escapist retreat from the world during a period of extreme stress. . .only to find the same things I'm trying to escape from here.

D&D humanoids aren't analogues for real-world races.

 

[RangerWickett]

I'm sure you can find ways to have fun that don't require pegging race to morality or intelligence. It's easy. "There's an army, and they are trying to seize land by killing people. They tend to wear a uniform."

Boom. Now you can have a conflict with an easily identifiable group, where you're not passively regurgitating storytelling conceits that are built on a foundation of discrimination.

And sheesh, man, you make it sound like "modern social issues" are something you want to avoid. I personally want to see more settings and stories take a modern view of social issues. I also play for fun and escapism, and to - as you say - "get away from real-world problems," which for me means indulging in worlds where we can actually achieve a good society that has moved or is moving beyond bigotry.

And finally, if I'm being honest, tabletop RPGs kinda stink when it comes to the visceral catharsis of combat. Video games scratch that itch much better. TTRPGs should play to their strengths: story, wonder, and social interaction. I say that 'killing an orc and taking its stuff' is sort of the least interesting thing you can do in D&D.

 

[Oofta]

Or people should play the game they want because TTRPGs are flexible like that.

But speaking of invading armies - do they have pie is the important issue of the day. If they have pie, how does the DM know that I even want pie? Maybe my PC is watching their figure and pie is the last thing in the world that I need.

Finally, who will think of the gnomes sacrificed to make the pie? I mean, obviously it's a good thing (it is gnomes we're talking about after all), but what if there's a buying frenzy on gnomes and their population collapses leaving a vacuum? I mean, nature (and D&D) abhors a vacuum so it could end up spawning yet another sub race of elves.

These are complex issues that need to be pondered.

P.S. Can we not turn this into another serious debate thread?

 

[Umbran]

Or, people like to have at least one thing in their life where they aren't having modern day politics thrown in their face.

This thread, by the nature and designof the top post, is throwing current conflicts in people's faces. Engaging with the thread while complaining about the thread's raison d'etre is a tad awkward.