Order of the Stick: How long will they put up with Miko?

[Falkus]

Part of the fun of the strip has always been that the members of the OotS understand the rules under which their lives operate. Ignoring them for convenience saps away much of that fun.

But what about the comedic value inherent in someone saying "you'll have to drag us there in chains", and then having them all being dragged there in chains in the next panel?

 

[Storm Raven]

But what about the comedic value inherent in someone saying "you'll have to drag us there in chains", and then having them all being dragged there in chains in the next panel?

Been there, done that. Boring.

 

[wedgeski]

Part of the fun of the strip has always been that the members of the OotS understand the rules under which their lives operate. Ignoring them for convenience saps away much of that fun.

I guess I always thought that the characters and the strip had an awarenes of the rules, but were never encumbered by them. This is what has surprised me about this thread... there are some folks totally at the other end of the spectrum, who consider the characters to be slavish adherents to the D&D rules-set. Certainly there are many occasions in the 250-some strips where the rules-as-written have obviously taken second place to the plot/comedy imperatives. It just strikes me as funny when people criticize the plot for railroading the guys into being Miko's prisoners, as if the last pane of the #251 strip doesn't even exist.

 

[Endur]

Miko is great. Its not her fault that Belkar is Chaotic Evil.

 

[Falkus]

Certainly there are many occasions in the 250-some strips where the rules-as-written have obviously taken second place to the plot/comedy imperatives

Exactly. I seem to recall V once casting three spells in a single round when fighting the Chimera.

 

[Endur]

Following the rules is "being screwed by the DM"? Interesting argument. Wrong, but interesting. A paladin needs a free hand to lay on hands, just as a cleric need a free hand to deliver a touch spell. Players should expect to follow the rules and not get lots of extra free actions.

Following the rules, a cleric needs a free hand for every spell that has a component of: Somatic or Divine Focus. How many GMs actually enforce that? Almost none.

 

[Storm Raven]

I guess I always thought that the characters and the strip had an awarenes of the rules, but were never encumbered by them. This is what has surprised me about this thread... there are some folks totally at the other end of the spectrum, who consider the characters to be slavish adherents to the D&D rules-set. Certainly there are many occasions in the 250-some strips where the rules-as-written have obviously taken second place to the plot/comedy imperatives. It just strikes me as funny when people criticize the plot for railroading the guys into being Miko's prisoners, as if the last pane of the #251 strip doesn't even exist.

The problem is twofold.

1. Rich tried to explain how the result of #251 wasn't railroading, but was reasonable. He then put forward an explanation in which the rules were broken repeatedly by the DMPC and the sequence demonstrated blatant railroading (such as Miko never missing an attack, and the OotS failing every save possible). If he had just said "yup, it is railroading" then it would have been much more palatable than his lame attempt to show that it somehow isn't.

2. Railroading isn't fun in general. It is dull and boring.

 

[Storm Raven]

Following the rules, a cleric needs a free hand for every spell that has a component of: Somatic or Divine Focus. How many GMs actually enforce that? Almost none.

I do. Other should as well. It would take care of many of the "cleric is overpowered" threads.

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

When words like 'credibility' and 'DM cheating' are used in reference to OotS, I'm absolutely bemused. Do you truly, honestly read that comic with the expectation that all the rules are dotted and crossed, that every combat has been meticulously worked out, and *that you are actually following the adventures of an actual campaign*, like some kind of stick-figure story hour? Surely the self-aware PC's, who attack, outwit, and take advantage of the rules behind their characters, who know eachother's feats, skills, and ability scores, and who say things like "Y'know, I think I just failed a Listen check!" suggest that this is not the case?

No, but I truly, honestly read that comic because I like the characters and plot. The D&D jokes are just a way to fill time or make sure that there's a punchline at the end of each comic. I actually don't care whether the game follows the rules. What I do care about is that the story, the OotS campaign, isn't simply wrecked by a dumb plot device, which I care about in any story I read.

Miko is that dumb plot device. She was fine as a paladin parody so long as the Order was going along with it willingly, but now they're locked into a pointless character's pointless plot. And that removes them from the equation. Now it's no longer the adventures of the Order so much as "the Order watches some stuff happen to them." That's bad writing, in a game or in a comic.

I say that the DM cheated much in the same way I could say that a hack writer creates poorly contrived situations and events to propel his characters through a novel to the conclusion he wants. If we're going to say "it's a D&D campaign," I want internal consistency, which means no DM cheating. If we're not going to say that, then it's still a story, and I want things to be believable and not reveal the hand of the author through a Deus Ex Machina like "and then she beat them all singlehandedly off camera."

Again, we're not reading it for the D&D jokes. Back to my superman example: the comic has become "all Mr. Mytzlplk, all the time."

 

[The_Warlock]

I think I have to agree with the people who are enjoying the comic for what it is, and waiting to be surprised. I'm not saying that those of you who are dissapointed aren't allowed to be, but I can't see the perspective on it.

I agree with the Miko is self-righteous/needed comeuppance camp.

I was thrilled with Roy's turnaround from chauvanistic skirt chaser to saying what he felt was right regardless of the target's gender - based more upon their attitude and treatment.

I agree, even at their best, the OotS makes poor choices. But that's the "Wet Cardboard for Brains" effect inherent in many a PC.

And if there's one thing that needs a good parody, it's DM Fiats, Railroading, and what not. Not because it hasn't been done before in gaming comics, but to remind us what it is, so we can laugh at the bad DMs and walk away rather than suffering.

On the other hand, folks have brought up that the OotS knows the rules of their world and uses them competently. I disagree - look at Durkon, plodding through a combat, and then only remembering after the fact that he was good against goblins - and getting his bonuses in retroactively. I think it'll be a hoot, if two strips down the line Belkar wakes up and says, "Hey, that's a FORT save!" and suddenly deus ex machina works in their favor.

Mr. Burlew posted a combat sequence as he saw it in his mind. Who cares. I'm not looking for exacting detail, and found it just another aspect of him catering to the crowds call for more, rather than a justification. Because in the end, he doesn't need to justify anything to us. If you don't like his comic, then you walk. If you do, you keep reading.

The end result is Mr. Burlew is pointing out so many of the negatives of the game through hysterical, sarcastic characters in a funny way to me. I find it a DMs tool actually - reminds me of the things I shouldn't do. Not by chastising, but by making me laugh at the people who ruin the game for themselves.

Oh, and just to tweek some people, it is, in fact, the DM's job to Cheat, often, and well, to maintain a good story. The rules are a framework, but behind the screen, DMs should work an alchemy to make the game and the story fun, exhilarating, and heroic for the players. If that means cheating, for or against the PCs, to give the story the edge and make the PCs the center of that story in which they are the focus of their choices and destiny, then so be it.

Huzzah to the OotS, in the end, they shall prevail (preferably not on hex map squares, though).