Orville: New Horizons (Spoilers)

[Ryujin]

Again this where I think the scale of the consequences is not being considered, because we simply aren't used to it.

We normally debate morality and principal and weigh them against much smaller consequences, loss of property or privilege. And in some cases the loss of a single life, or the life of a specific group.

But when you are talking the annihilation of your world, perhaps your entire species (hell in the Orville's case the annihilation of hundreds of worlds and species)..... "isn't convenient" doesn't even scratch the surface, and its disingenuous to think that the standard of a principal has to hold out against any and all possible consequences to be considered a principal.

If I might use a scientific approach for a moment. In my engineering training, we were taught that superheated Steam is water that is heated above the boiling point, often many hundreds of degrees hotter. And for all common cases of engineering, this definition is perfectly useful and correct, with common properties exhibited across many hundreds of degrees of temperature. However, when dealing with temperatures approaching that of a star for example, well now you are entering entirely new phases of matter (plasma being the most common). The definition and properties of superheated steam really does not hold anymore, its a brand new ballgame.


The point being that the case of "utter annihilation" is a consequence so far above the standard that it requires a whole new approach and consideration. A principal that stands up against all lesser consequences is one thing, but then to state it must stand up against this ultimate consequence to be valid.... that to me is no longer morality but insanity.

You don't get a lot of moral ambiguity in a morality play. The hats generally stay white or if they get a little dirty, they're generally bleached back to sparkling white by the end of the story.

 

[Stalker0]

You don't get a lot of moral ambiguity in a morality play. The hats generally stay white or if they get a little dirty, they're generally bleached back to sparkling white by the end of the story.

Completely agree, and that's why I noted the tangent before....I think the discussion has evolved past the "show" and is now a general philosophical argument. We are only using the orville as a backdrop to discuss what would "actual morality" look like in such a situation, but no longer looking at it as any critique of the show.

 

[Zardnaar]

We don't need to look at the show though as everyone basically compromises their principles by just by existing.

If you like cheap stuff, dinosaur juice, consumer electronics, buying D&D books off Amazon you've compromised something somewhere.

 

[Mallus]

That last episode was pure classic Star Trek.

It presented both sides of the argument: the right one and the wrong one.

By the end the government threw realpolitik into the trash bin and did the most idealistic thing possible in defense of trans... ahem, Moclan female rights.

So glad this show isn’t a woke mess of real politics!

 

[Ryujin]

Well that episode sewed up some hanging threads and gave my least liked, single-note character a better send-off than they really deserved. All in all I enjoyed it, but it was a step down from the previous episode for me. Looking forward to the final episode, which might be the series finale.

 

[Rabulias]

Yeah they did not wait long to show fallout from the Moclus expulsion last episode. And a resolution I did not expect.

My speculation for next episode is Mercer working to get Anaya some way. Maybe a little obvious from the end of this one?

 

[MNblockhead]

Rather predictable, but quite enjoyable. Isaac's eulogy was the highlight for me.

 

[Ryujin]

Rather predictable, but quite enjoyable. Isaac's eulogy with the highlight for me.

Oh, it was telegraphed from orbit, but still well done.

 

[Stalker0]

Well that episode sewed up some hanging threads and gave my least liked, single-note character a better send-off than they really deserved.

You hated Ten Danson's character that much?

 

[Umbran]

Again this where I think the scale of the consequences is not being considered, because we simply aren't used to it.

We normally debate morality and principal and weigh them against much smaller consequences, loss of property or privilege. And in some cases the loss of a single life, or the life of a specific group.

Well, the show itself just addressed this question - Season 3 Episode 9, "Domino" gives its answer to it this question rather clearly.

If I might use a scientific approach for a moment.

Sure, I'm a physicist. I can handle it.

In my engineering training, we were taught that superheated Steam is water that is heated above the boiling point, often many hundreds of degrees hotter. And for all common cases of engineering, this definition is perfectly useful and correct, with common properties exhibited across many hundreds of degrees of temperature. However, when dealing with temperatures approaching that of a star for example, well now you are entering entirely new phases of matter (plasma being the most common). The definition and properties of superheated steam really does not hold anymore, its a brand new ballgame.

Yes, but if we are to use that analogy, we note that when we go from one phase to another, there is a phase transition - the steam ceases to be water molecules, and dissociates into hydrogen and oxygen ions, and becomes a plasma. That transition is easily identifiable. It doesn't sneak up on you.

The point being that the case of "utter annihilation" is a consequence so far above the standard that it requires a whole new approach and consideration. A principal that stands up against all lesser consequences is one thing, but then to state it must stand up against this ultimate consequence to be valid.... that to me is no longer morality but insanity.

I submit that The Orville doesn't think so. Because the message of S3 E9 was very much that, even in the face of annihilation, sticking to principles is the way to go.