[OT?] Fred Saberhagen's Sword books & D&D

[Dark Eternal]

I am curious about something: How many people have read Fred Saberhagen's Books of Swords?

And I'm even more curious about something else: How many people have ever ripped off any of the Swords for their D&D campaign? If you have, how much did you take? Just the idea, or one or more specific swords?

Has anyone ever run a game in a setting copied from or based on the Swords'?

And most of all, how would those of you who do such things write up those bloody things for 3e?!?

 

[Heretic Apostate]

Not 3E, but per my request, Sean posted this on his webpage.

http://www.seankreynolds.com/rpgfiles/magicitems/saberhagenswords.html

 

[Joseph Elric Smith]

Not 3E, but per my request, Sean posted this on his webpage.

http://www.seankreynolds.com/rpgfiles/magicitems/saberhagenswords.html

thanks for the link
ken

 

[Marimmar]

I read Saberhagen's books twice. It's perfect stuff to read on long, quiet vacations. The idea to convert the swords over to (then) AD&D occured to me too but I never did it because those swords are way too epic for my taste.

~Marimmar

 

[MerakSpielman]

I love those books.

Fred Saberhagen actually lives here in Albuquerque, I hear.

The major problem I see with converting the swords to D&D is you'd have to keep them more powerful than the gods, or they'd lose their flavor, and work out how they were created (by Moradin? there isn't a D&D smith god). Having characters running around with a weapon that can affect/kill a god could potentially be dreadful.

Can you imagine what would happen if a PC got a hold of the Mindsword? <shudder>

And in a world with clerical magic, Woundhealer loses a bit of it's coolness. What good is a wound healing sword when any mid-level cleric can surpass it and bring back the dead?

Also, from what I remember, some of the swords are poorly explained in the books: Soulcutter and Doomgiver, for instance.

Anyway, they would all be at least +5 Keen Vorpal bastard swords. Perhaps higher.

You'd have to make up D&D conversions for all the swords and stick by the letter of the rules you make. The swords are powerful enough not to allow saving throws for any of their functions (or maybe DC500 or so?), unless you have a sword that counters that particular function.

examples:

Shieldbreaker
The wielder of Shieldbreaker must use Sunder on all weapon attacks against him as a free action, automatically destroying any such weapon, including other Swords of Power. There is a 50% chance of also destroying the armor or shield of the attacker. The wielder of Shieldbreaker also gets a free attack on any opponent attacking with a melee weapon and within reach. This free attack takes place immedietly after the opponent's weapon is Sundered and, if successful, is always a critical hit for maximum damage.
All spells, spell-like effects, and supernatural abilities that target the wielder of Shieldbreaker automatically fail, including those from other Swords of Power. Area of effect spells that include the wielder in the area also automatically fail. Any Sword of Power that would normally grant a bonus to any roll versus the wielder of Shieldbreaker does not grant its bonus.
During combat (after initiative is rolled) Shieldbreaker fuses to the hand of the wielder, and can only be dropped or thrown away if the wielder makes a strength check DC 25. The DC increases by 2 points for every continuous round of combat, and decreases by 10 points for every round of no combat (if combat resumes, the DC is always at least 25).
The wielder of Shieldbreaker take 1 point of strength damage every 5 rounds it is wielded. This strength damage is restored at a rate of 1 point per hour after combat ends. If the wielder loses all their strength points, they collapse and Shieldbreaker falls from their hand.
Shieldbreaker cannot harm an unarmed opponent, no matter what (natural weapons are not considered weapons in this interpretation), though it will still fuse to its wielder's hand if held during combat.
There is one counter to Shieldbreaker: Attack unarmed until the wielder loses all their strength, and hope they don't make the DC to drop the Sword.


Farslayer
If Farslayer is held and the death of a specific individual fervantly wished (the name of the individual is not required: "The man who killed my brother" would be close enough), the Sword will leap from the wielder's hand in a rainbow streak that can penetrate all barriors, magical and mundane, and ignores any armor or protections of the specified target. The sword implants itself firmly in the chest (or equivelent "middle") of the target and instantly slays them beyond all hope of revival. Even a True Ressurection spell or direct, divine influence will be unable to reverse such a death. Farslayer can reach any plane of existance and is capible of slaying divinity, reaches any target within five minutes of being sent.
The counters to Farslayer are 3:
If the target is wielding Shieldbreaker, Farslayer will be Sundered and destroyed forever.
If the target is impaled with Woundhealer before Farslayer strikes, he will not be harmed.
If the target is wielding Doomgiver, Farslayer will instead return and slay the person who sent it.


edit: added the str drain of Shieldbreaker.

 

[Dinkeldog]

This is moving somewhere. Either to sci-fi/fantasy books or house rules depending on how I feel after I post this.

Anyway, if you give the gods DR 100/god-forged, then give the Swords the god-forged trait to bypass that DR, you should be all right on that "must be more powerful than gods" thing. It's definitely epic campaign material, though.

 

[Mike Sullivan]

Anyway, they would all be at least +5 Keen Vorpal bastard swords. Perhaps higher.

Well, Woundhealer wouldn't be.

I actually don't think that any of them would. My impression of the Swords were that they were all very focused and, while unbeatable in their strengths, otherwise fairly mundane. So I'd probably suggest that they be treated as Masterwork, unbreakable Bastard Swords when their powers aren't "on."

Sightblinder is pretty easy, right? Change Self, auto-invoke to the most advantageous image that the target could see, and True Sight, always on.

Most of them don't really need mechanics, per se -- they're absolute in their effects. Townsaver might be an exception:

When activated (ie, when you're defending a group of non-combatants), it's a +10 Keen, Vorpal weapon, plus you can fight until down to -50 hit points. -2 to AC. When the effect ends, if you're below -10 hit points, you instantly die.

 

[MerakSpielman]

Well, Woundhealer wouldn't be.

Well, it would behave so against mundane items...

I actually don't think that any of them would. My impression of the Swords were that they were all very focused and, while unbeatable in their strengths, otherwise fairly mundane. So I'd probably suggest that they be treated as Masterwork, unbreakable Bastard Swords when their powers aren't "on."

I don't know. The characters are always talking about the incredible superiority of these blades to any they have handled before, even when the enchantments are not activated. They always talked about their uneartly perfection, unnatrually keen and hard blades, and wholly remarkable metal.
What do the enchantments of a D&D world really do except make blades super-keen and super-tough?

Sightblinder is pretty easy, right? Change Self, auto-invoke to the most advantageous image that the target could see, and True Sight, always on.

Good. Sounds like a headache for the DM though, if they hold it every time they interact with random NPCs.

Most of them don't really need mechanics, per se -- they're absolute in their effects. Townsaver might be an exception:

When activated (ie, when you're defending a group of non-combatants), it's a +10 Keen, Vorpal weapon, plus you can fight until down to -50 hit points. -2 to AC. When the effect ends, if you're below -10 hit points, you instantly die.

Also, it ignores all armor bonuses....

gotta go. work calls.

 

[Mort]

First, I think Shieldbraker would be effective against natural weapons: it’s been a while since I read the books but I believe it works against demons which use only natural weapons.

Bit of a thread hijack, but a possible interesting situation:

Lets say you through Monks into the mix against Shieldbraker.

A low level monk will demolish the wielder because they can use their unarmed attacks effectively.

A mid to high level monk will be immediately slaughtered, however, because their Ki-strike would be considered a magical weapon. So the real question is, can a monk turn their Ki off?

 

[MerakSpielman]

I seem to remember Shieldbreaker not being able to harm animals...

Heck, a 1st level peasent can defeat the wielder of Shieldbreaker, if he puts down his club first.

The gimmick in the book was a very few people knew the specific strengths and weaknesses of the Swords.

This idea would be most effective in a D&D setting if NONE of your players had read the books. Don't tell them about the books, except maybe mention that you stole this idea somewhere. They can discover the powers (and vulneribilities) of the Swords on their own.

Also, in the books, the Swords have a habit (magical? who knows)of changing owners regularly. You don't want each party member to be waltzing around with a Sword all the time.

You can steal adventure ideas from the books. A man with Wayfinder is hiring people to loot the main vault of X temple/bank... The party is hired to deliver Stonecutter to a noble who needs it to dig out a bandit lair... Farslayer has been wreaking havok among feuding families, but suddenly vanished from the scene.... A new gambler is always winning and the casino wants to know why (Coinspinner)... They must use Sightblinder to infiltrate the camp of a warlord with the MindSword to rescue a princess.... etc....

But they should rarely be able to keep a Sword beyond the adventure they need it for.