[OT]Help me, Norway! Jeg har bestemt meg for a laere norsk.(gotta download the types!

[Illuminae]

Dearest norwegian fellows.

Today I decided to learn Norwegian, but I will have to do it by my byself.

So I am here to ask for you help (hjelp meg, venner! ), because that is not going to be an easy task to perform.

I started looking for free dictionaries, online translators, and norwegian web pages, so I can read things in Norwegian, then try to translate them.

The biggest problem is:

I read about the language and found out that there are 2 major dialects being spoken in Norway in the present, and it will be very difficult to know which one I will be trying to read, and I already have many generic questions about the language.

I will need at least someone who is willing to answer my questions and doubts, so that one day I will have enough knowledge to start trying to speak with a norwegian (and I am already trying to figure out how on earth I am going to be able to know a Norsk in my city. Well, at least we have the embassy here, but I don´t think the guards will let me in, just so I can meet someone, heheh ) and that is why I´ve come to you, and ask for your help.

I found 2 online translators, and they keep giving me different translations to many phrases and words, and that is beside the fact that you can never trust a translation software when it comes to complete phases...

So, as I said before, I already have some questions.

How different are the 2 dialects? I read that both are spoken by nearly the total population from Norway, so its kinda difficult to picture the difference. Is it just mostly words, or grammar too?

Is the conjugation of the verbs always the same? If so, how is it?
I ask this because portuguese (my native laguage) has many different patterns, so you just have to memorize the verbs individually. I know very little german (Hoch Deutsch), and I think that its conjugation is rather easy. And I really hope that Norsk uses only one pattern too.

Infinitive form = root+en
Ich = +e
Du = +st
Sie = +en
etc...

Another big problem will be access to pronunciation. Would someone be willing to record a mp3 with the pronunciation of the letters and a word with esch of them as an example?

ANY HELP WILL BE GREAT!

I would be forever grateful.

Thanks in advance,

Maurício

PS: Could you please correct my title?

 

[Illuminae]

shameless bump

please?

 

[Left-handed Hummingbird]

Caveat: I'm Danish, not Norwegian, but I'll get you started. : )

The two dialects, nynorsk (New Norwegian) and bokmål (Book-language) is very different. Bokmål is very close to Danish - because Norway was heavily influenced by Denmark and Danish for long period of it's history (as Denmark was heavily influenced by Norway and especially Norwegians), and was the predominant language for the last couple of hundred years. For a Dane, bokmål is very easy to understand.

Nynorsk is far harder for Danes to understand. That language is a romantic reinvention of an old Norwegian language. It was - to my knowledge - a dialect spoken only in a specific region of Norway, and thus not necessarily at all a reflection of a true old Norwegian, but it was however a symbolic distinction between the Norwegian language and the Danish (and Swedish, being similar to Danish and Norwegian).

As to language advice, though we've read both Norwegian and Swedish in high school, I only feel confident to teach you Danish.

As Bokmål and Danish is almost similar, I'll give you some Danish-advice. : )

In Danish verbs verbs usually follows two patterns:

At spise (to eat)
Jeg(I)/du(you)/han(he)/hun(she)/den(it(ehm common (that is both masculine and feminine) sex))/det(it(neutral/no sex))/vi(we)/I(you)/de(they) spiser
Past tense: spiste
Have eaten: har spist
Eating: Spisende
Command (Eat!): Spis

At sejle (to sail)
Present tense: Sejler
Past tense: Sejlede
Have sailed: Har sejlet
Sailing: Sejlende
Command: Sejl

In a Danish dictionary this would be presented as respectively "spise, -te" and "sejle, -ede"

Some verbs break the pattern though

At være (to be)
Present: Er
Past: Var
Have been: Har været
Being: Værende
Command: Vær (these last two is like the ones above so I won't make a fuss about that from now on)

To walk (at gå)
Går
Gik
Har gået

To see (at se)
Ser
Så
Har Set

at bede om (to ask for)
beder om
bad om
har bedt om

at blive (to become)
bliver
blev
er blevet

at drikke (to drink)
drikker
drak
har drukket

at foretrække (to prefer)
foretrækker
foretrak
har foretrukket

at få (to get)
får
fik
har fået

at give (to give)
giver
gav
har givet

at have (to have)
har
havde
har haft

at hedde (My name is ... = Jeg hedder ...)
hedder
hed
har heddet

at holde (to hold)
holder
holdt
har holdt

at hænge (to hang)
hænger
hang
har hængt

at komme (to come)
kommer
kom
er/har kommet

at ligge (to lay)
ligger
lå
har ligget

at lyde (to sound)
lyder
lød
har lydt

at optage (to record)
optager
optog
har optaget

at sidde (to sit)
sidder
sad
har siddet

at skrive (to write)
skriver
skrev
har skrevet

at smide (to toss)
smider
smed
har smidt

at springe (to leap)
springer
sprang
er/har sprunget

at stå (to stand)
står
stod
har stået

at sætte sig (to sit)
sætter sig
satte sig
har sat sig

at tage (to take)
tager
tog
har taget

Hope I was able to help a little.

 

[Illuminae]

Hope I was able to help a little.

You were able to help a lot.

takk, venn!

And you just kinda solved a mistery: one translator would give me the verbs in a phrase, in the present tense with -e while the other gave me -er as you said.

thanks a lot!

--------------------------------------

please, people, if you can help me, I really want to learn this language!

------------------------------------

End of day 1.

 

[Illuminae]

ah, a simple question this time:

How are the verbs connected, in simple sentences, such as:

I want to drink water.

?


I dont want you guys to teach me everything, thats not easy. And I know you have a life . I just want a helping hand (or two, or three....)

 

[Left-handed Hummingbird]

Again in Danish - but the basics are the same

I want to drink the water

Literally: "Jeg ønsker at drikke vandet."

You wouldn't phrase it like that though. You would probably say: "Jeg vil drikke vandet. "

"I have decided to learn Norwegian"

"Jeg har besluttet at lære norsk"

 

[bondetamp]

Re: [OT] Help me, Norway! Jeg bestemt laern Norsk.

I read about the language and found out that there are 2 major dialects being spoken in Norway in the present, and it will be very difficult to know which one I will be trying to read, and I already have many generic questions about the language.

I'll start out with the two written languages:

As you may or may not know, Norway was under Danish rule for several hundred years, leaving quite a heritage in our language. During the 19th century when we were no longer under Denmark (we were given to Sweden after the Napoleonic war, Sweden being on the winning side and Denmark being on the losing. We were in a freer position under Sweden, though, having, among oter thing, our own parlament and constitution) there were some discussion about what to do about our language. Some people meant that we should continue using Danish, but making it into our own language by changing parts, while some felt that we should scrap Danish and make a new language based on Norwegian dialects. Both lines were followed and became, in time, the two languages we know today. Danish became Riksmål (I guess "National language" would be a fairly close translation) while another language was made based on the dialects and called Landsmål (which also means "National language" but in other words and with slightly different connotations. ). During the 20th century, the government ried to change these two languages to be more similar to each others, the final goal being a full merger between the two. Riksmål became Bokmål (meaning "book language") while Landsmål became Nynorsk (meaning "New Norwegian"). The merged language was called Samnorsk (meaning "Merged norwegian") and was used for a few years in the fifties, sixties and seventies by the government but not very many other people.

So, we have no less than five slightly different languages, each fought for fanatically by their organizations.

The two official languages, after Samnorsk was officially scrapped, as a concept, by the government last year after being dismantled for twenty years before that, are Bokmål and Nynorsk. Bokmål is (if I remember correctly) used by about 85-90% of the population, while the rest are using Nynorsk.

The differences are only slight; no native Norwegian, or anyone with a fair grasp of the language, will have any difficulties understanding both. The difference is somewhat larger than between British and American English but not much. Some words are different, and there are slight differences in the grammar. Nothing to worry about, though.

I would strongly sugest choosing Bokmål as the language to learn (or perhaps German or French, both which seem like better choices than Norwegian, but what do I know ... ) since it is so dominant.

How different are the 2 dialects? I read that both are spoken by nearly the total population from Norway, so its kinda difficult to picture the difference. Is it just mostly words, or grammar too?

As I said, the differences are only slight.

Is the conjugation of the verbs always the same? If so, how is it?

Mostly. (as in, "I can't think of any different conjugations at the moment, but I'm tired, so that might be the reason." )

We conjugate the verbs in Tempus, the nouns in number and sex and the pronouns in number, sex and case.

So:
Infinitive form = root + e å kjøre (to drive)
Presence = root + er Jeg kjører (I drive)
Preteritum = root + te or et Jeg kjørte (I drove) or Jeg dyttet ham (I pushed him)
Perfectum = root + t or et Jeg har kjørt (I have driven) or Jeg har dyttet ham (I have pushed him)

There are other endings too, but these are the most used verb endings for regular verb.

Another big problem will be access to pronunciation. Would someone be willing to record a mp3 with the pronunciation of the letters and a word with esch of them as an example?

I don't have the facilities to do such recordings, I'm sorry.

If you ask somebody at the Norwegian Embassy, though, I'm sure they'll be able to help you find books and audio tapes, making it easier.

PS: Could you please correct my title?

I'm not entirely sure what you're trying to say with the title.

"Jeg bestemt laern Norsk" is an odd construction, but I can try a guess.

If you mean "I have decided to learn Norwegian", the sentence should be "Jeg har bestemt meg for å lære norsk." (nationalities are not capitalized in Norwegian. Nor are they, oddly enough, conjugated.)

I hope my ramblings have helped at all ... feel free to ask more questions.

 

[bondetamp]

Re: Again in Danish - but the basics are the same

I want to drink the water

Literally: "Jeg ønsker at drikke vandet."

You wouldn't phrase it like that though. You would probably say: "Jeg vil drikke vandet. "

"I have decided to learn Norwegian"

"Jeg har besluttet at lære norsk"

Well, there are some differences between Norwegian Bokmål and Danish.

'at' as a word to mark the infinitiv got scrapped almost a hundred years ago in official bokmål. We use 'å'.

"Jeg ønsker å drikke vannet" (note another difference, vandet - vannet)
"Jeg vil drikke vannet"

"Jeg har besluttet å lære norsk" "besluttet" isn't used much except in formal cases, though. "The City Council decided to ..." would be "Bystyret besluttet å ...". "I decided to ..." would be "Jeg bestemte meg for å ..."