[OT] Personality tests.

[Chun-tzu]

My mother loves me more than my father:

I've never been attracted to a member of the opposite sex:

A) Strongly Agree
B) Agree
C) Disagree
D) Strongly Disagree

Hmm. Interesting questions. They don't ring any bells for me, but testing is not my specialty. So, I don't know what test(s) they may have come from. It's also possible that they're from one of the major tests, but an older version than the ones that I used.

OK, what do these questions mean? It's all about statistics, NOTHING MORE (which makes them highly valid, statistically speaking). Take a large sample of "regular" people and a sample of "crazy" people. Ask them a bunch of test questions. The questions you keep are the ones that are best at distinguishing the two groups from each other. Most "regular" people answer this way, and "crazy" people answer that way. Put together enough of these questions, and you've got something pretty reliable. This is a simplification of the test construction process, but that's the core idea.

Also, let me be clear that NO SINGLE QUESTION determines a profile. It's all about averages and numbers. If you answer enough questions in an abnormal way, guess what? You're probably not that normal.

So, don't think that after you've taken such a test, the psychometrist (the test-giving guy) reads your answers and makes all these assumptions about your sex life, your childhood, your fantasies, or whatever. That's what the inkblot tests are all about

 

[jester47]

There must be some kind of misunderstanding, Jester. A personality test by definition does not have right or wrong answers, that are each weighted equally. Nor do people re-take personality tests after a brief period like 6 months, to get a "better" score. Personality is considered a fairly stable construct.

If you've got your facts right, then this is not a standard personality test (and perhaps not a personality test at all). And if that's the case, it's hard for anyone to give any advice without more detailed information.

Sorry I was not clear. It is 50 questions in their own section on the national firefighter inventory test. Before that you answer 105 questions on grammer, spelling, math, and reading comprehension. When the test is just the first part I ace it (as I did here in Seattle on a much more difficult version, 92%). This time however (testing for 7 different departments) they had a "personality" test at the end. 50 questions. Answers based on how much I agreed or disagreed. They were not weird like the ones above. Just stuff like "I like to talk to people." I lost most of my points there. So I was wondering how somthing like that was "scored." Once you have taken the test for a department (through the proctoring company) you cannot test again for those departments for six months.

I think the test is graded by a scan-tron like device (never saw it) and I do not think it has the ability to say "ah number 1 was B and 5 was E" so I am led to believe that they are looking for a specific stringof answers. Which I think is completely FUBAR.

Hope this helps.

Aaron.

 

[Chun-tzu]

Sorry I was not clear. It is 50 questions in their own section on the national firefighter inventory test. Before that you answer 105 questions on grammer, spelling, math, and reading comprehension.

Oh, okay. So it's a specialized test, and one I'm not at all familiar with. So I may be off on some of the other stuff.

When the test is just the first part I ace it (as I did here in Seattle on a much more difficult version, 92%). This time however (testing for 7 different departments) they had a "personality" test at the end. 50 questions. Answers based on how much I agreed or disagreed. They were not weird like the ones above. Just stuff like "I like to talk to people." I lost most of my points there. So I was wondering how somthing like that was "scored." Once you have taken the test for a department (through the proctoring company) you cannot test again for those departments for six months.

Well, you may be right here about them looking for a specific profile. I'm still doubtful, though; most personality profiles are pretty individualistic, and given how many firefighters there are across the country, I doubt they all match one specific type (even if it's a vague type). I'm still thinking that it's a screening device, more than anything.

I wonder if you can talk to anyone there (the testing or training guys) about your results. Maybe they can give you some advice on what you can do (if anything), since you passed all the other requirements. Their test (which hopefully is a good one, I wouldn't know) seems to indicate that firefighting isn't the best match for you, so maybe if you talked with some firefighters about your situation, you'd get a sense of whether or not that's true.

(Man, this makes me think of a PC trying to get into a PrC, and meeting all the mechanical requirements, but still needing some "Special" requirement. Sorry about the sidetrack there.)

Also, consider the possibility that it's right. Ask yourself why you want to be a firefighter. Maybe there's more to it than you know, and if you knew more than you'd know that you wouldn't like being a firefighter. (I don't know you well enough to say either way; I'm just raising the possibility.) Then again, maybe they're just not really looking for new people right now, and so the requirements are pretty strict.

I think the test is graded by a scan-tron like device (never saw it) and I do not think it has the ability to say "ah number 1 was B and 5 was E" so I am led to believe that they are looking for a specific stringof answers. Which I think is completely FUBAR.

It's possible that the questions are graded according to a certain key, and that you need to meet a minimum cutoff score. For example, maybe "I like to talk to people" is worth 2 points if you agree strongly, 1 point if you agree, all the way down to -2 points for disagree strongly. Again, that's just a guess, and it's not the way standard personality tests work.

Well, however this all turns out, I certainly wish you the best of luck in this, J. Wish I could have told you something more specific, instead of educated guesses.

 

[Pbartender]

I'm not a firefighter, but much like them I work in a job that requires extensive training and 24-hour rotating shift work... I think I understand that reasoning behind the "personality" portion of the test.

Consider how much training it takes to become a firefighter. Now consider the lifestyle of the job... You spend several days at a stretch on 24-hour watch with a small number of people, and extended periods of time away from family and friends. Not to mention the inherent fears and dangers of fighting fires. Not all of that is always easy to handle.

They don't want to spend a lot of time and money training someone who will quit after a few months, because they can't handle the stresses of the job.

As Chun-tzu said, maybe the test is telling you something... Think really hard about whether this type of job is right for you.

 

[jester47]

Thanks, its somthing I have been looking into for about 2 years doing research and such, and I am pretty sure that I want to do it.

It is just really hard to get in. I bombed seattle on the 2nd phase oral interview (there are a lot of hoops to jump through) and I am about to start my EMT training. I had to pass a test to get into that. 36 seats in the class with 130 people applying. Got it.

I botched the SFD oral, but I will get that on the next time around (I know what I did wrong this time). It is largely a matter of getting past the written test, the physical test and the oral boards and having your EMT taken care of. Then its psych, medical eval, background check and driving record with a chief's interview. And everyone is entitled to a second opinion in all psych tests and medical exams. Once you get through that, you go to "boot camp."

Anyways, thanks for the help. I think I did learn a little about the test and I am actually getting a report on psych tests pretty soon and that might have some info in it.

Aaron.

 

[jester47]

I'm not a firefighter, but much like them I work in a job that requires extensive training and 24-hour rotating shift work... I think I understand that reasoning behind the "personality" portion of the test.

Consider how much training it takes to become a firefighter. Now consider the lifestyle of the job... You spend several days at a stretch on 24-hour watch with a small number of people, and extended periods of time away from family and friends.

They don't want to spend a lot of time and money training someone who will quit after a few months, because they can't handle the stresses of the job.

As Chun-tzu said, maybe the test is telling you something... Think really hard about whether this type of job is right for you.

In truth is ussually 24 on 48 off 24 on 72 off. 2 and three day off periods.

If you saw it and failed it (like most do) you would probably have the same reservations as I am having about its relavence in the test, (firefighters moving laterally between departments fail because of that part.) and would be wondering how you are going to overcome this new obstacle in your plan.

Besides maybe strongly agreeing or disagreeing will throw it off enough to knock you out. There could be places where they simply were looking for me to agree but not stongly.

Aaron.

 

[Pbartender]

In truth is ussually 24 on 48 off 24 on 72 off. 2 and three day off periods.

Yeah, but that's still pretty tough.

Now you've got me curious to see the questions...

For the last four and a half years, I've been working a 5-week rotating shift (2 weeks of day shift, 1 week of evening, 1 week of midnight, 1 week of transition bewteen eves and owls, and working 12-hour shifts on 2 out of 5 weekends), with mandatory overtime. And we work through holidays (Yay triple time!). It's something you get used to, but never really get used to. It plays havoc on social functions and family gatherings. There's weeks in which I hardly see my wife and kids, and the long, late hours can ruin my normally good humor, straining even the most forgiving relationships.

It was a primary consideration during my interview for the job, because the training takes nearly 2 years... And the job has such a high turn-over rate, due to the shift work. Most of my co-workers leave for a regular day job before the 3-year mark.

Anyway, if that's not the sort of thing they're worried about, then you've got me. Regardless, the best of luck to you. I hope you work it out one way or the other.

 

[jester47]

Here are some of the ones I remember.

"I like talking to others"
"I have friends and family I can talk to"
"When I can properly handle stress I do not bring it home"

All of which I put I agree with (which I do)

"I keep my feelings to myself" I put disagree but I cansee the error in that.
"Nice guys finish last"
"Sometimes I am mean to people just to see what they will do"

I put disagree for these.

Ones I can't remember what I put are:

"life is a series of accidents waiting to happen"
"People are generally selfish"


I think next time I am hit with one of these I might go through and before answering each question say "I am in a box with some people for 24 hours" instead of "everyone is a hurt person." I think I might have just psyched myself out. Dunno.

I think I will know more when the report on psych reports comes in.

Anyways, thanks for chattin.

Aaron.

 

[rounser]

Just one piece of advice on anyone doing these tests in the future: Be consistent.

A lot of these tests seem to be trying to detect how truthful you are, and if you answer the same question worded or put differently in different ways, the people who made it conclude that you're lying...rather than see-sawing one way or another depending on how the question is phrased, as you really were.

Even experts can be very stupid sometimes...

 

[Pbartender]

Anyways, thanks for chattin.

Aaron.

Not a problem... I'm 2/3's the way through a rather dull 12 hour midnight shift. Oof.