[OT, Star Wars] Empire Is Good.
- Thread starter The Burned Man
- Start date
trentonjoe
Explorer
Interesting piece. I live in America, I choose democracy and it's faults. Go REPUBLIC!
Derulbaskul
Adventurer
These philosophies are very similar to those that underly the Singaporean theory of government. Perhaps George Lucas studied Singapore's history before he created the Empire?
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Simon Magalis
First Post
The guy is full of crap IMO. There is a TON of implicatio in the original trilogy to suggest that Vader, the Emperor and his Empire are responsible for many unspeakable acts. The lack of visual evidence comes from the desire on Lucas' part to make a movie that kids can go see with their parents.
Well there are two big points he did gloss over.
1.) Historicaly, those darn rebels in the New World didn't have much of a plan for life after the King either. In fact their first idea was to make George Washington a king, their next idea didn't work either. It wasn't until several years later when they got the second congress going that they whipped up the constitution.
2.) The Empire is a meritocity, if you happen to be Corellian (human). While there is no hard evidence of racial discrination in the movies. It seems that few if any non-human races rise to power.
1.) Historicaly, those darn rebels in the New World didn't have much of a plan for life after the King either. In fact their first idea was to make George Washington a king, their next idea didn't work either. It wasn't until several years later when they got the second congress going that they whipped up the constitution.
2.) The Empire is a meritocity, if you happen to be Corellian (human). While there is no hard evidence of racial discrination in the movies. It seems that few if any non-human races rise to power.
Maedhros the Tall
First Post
Due Process
I think that this piece was written as satire, but I digress. One of the biggest arguments against the destruction of Aldraan is the fact that even if in open, armed rebellion there is no proof that exactly 100% of the citizens killed were in arms against the Empire. So, with a total disregard for the rule of law and due process, the entire planet is destroyed. That is called a reign of terror and mass murder, thus more then a reason for rebellion.
I think that this piece was written as satire, but I digress. One of the biggest arguments against the destruction of Aldraan is the fact that even if in open, armed rebellion there is no proof that exactly 100% of the citizens killed were in arms against the Empire. So, with a total disregard for the rule of law and due process, the entire planet is destroyed. That is called a reign of terror and mass murder, thus more then a reason for rebellion.
Bleh. When the facts don't exist to make his case he feels free to make assumptions; when the facts actually contradict his case, then he says that the character in question is therefore "lying".
Not only that, but the elitist jedi society vs. the meritocracy of the Empire argument is rubbish. As he says, people go to Empire acadamies, and those of a certain talent are promoted. In the jedi order, it's exactly the same - those with a certain talent become jedi. His only distinction is that the jedi criteria is genetic while the Imperial criteria is not - but I don't see anything different between being a person born as "officer material" and a person born with "a high midichlorian count".
Also, nowhere in any film does it say that only certain poeple can use the force. Just because Qui Gonn said that Anakin had a higher midichlorian count than Yoda doesn't mean that the general populace don't have midichlorians. Ban Kenobi even offered to teach the force to Han Solo in Ep. IV. I see no evidence to indicate that jediship is only allowed to certain "genetically superior" beings; in fact the jedi council wanted to refuse admission to Anakin who had the highest count of all. The impression I get is that they'd rather have balanced but less talented members than unstable yet powerful. The deciding factor appears to be attitude, not midichlorian count.
And finally - where does he get the idea that jedi are the equivalent of the Imperial ruling body? The jedi are a police force, not a government (and I'm sure Republic has regular police too). The government is the Senate, and anyone can technically become a senator.
Not only that, but the elitist jedi society vs. the meritocracy of the Empire argument is rubbish. As he says, people go to Empire acadamies, and those of a certain talent are promoted. In the jedi order, it's exactly the same - those with a certain talent become jedi. His only distinction is that the jedi criteria is genetic while the Imperial criteria is not - but I don't see anything different between being a person born as "officer material" and a person born with "a high midichlorian count".
Also, nowhere in any film does it say that only certain poeple can use the force. Just because Qui Gonn said that Anakin had a higher midichlorian count than Yoda doesn't mean that the general populace don't have midichlorians. Ban Kenobi even offered to teach the force to Han Solo in Ep. IV. I see no evidence to indicate that jediship is only allowed to certain "genetically superior" beings; in fact the jedi council wanted to refuse admission to Anakin who had the highest count of all. The impression I get is that they'd rather have balanced but less talented members than unstable yet powerful. The deciding factor appears to be attitude, not midichlorian count.
And finally - where does he get the idea that jedi are the equivalent of the Imperial ruling body? The jedi are a police force, not a government (and I'm sure Republic has regular police too). The government is the Senate, and anyone can technically become a senator.
Jack Haggerty
First Post
Monty Python's, The Life of Skywalker...
INTERIOR: MOS EISLEY CANTINA
In a dim, dusty backroom, a group of rebels stand over a holographic map, planning their next strike.
ADMIRAL ACKBAR: We're gettin' in through the underground heating system here, up through into the main audience chamber here, and Tarkin's wife's bedroom is here. Having grabbed his wife, we inform Tarkin that she is in our custody and forthwith issue our demands. Any questions?
SEE THREEPIO: What exactly are the demands?
LEIA: We're giving Tarkin two days to dismantle the entire apparatus of the Galactic Imperialist State, and if he doesn't agree immediately, we execute her.
SEE THREEPIO: Cut her head off?
ACKBAR: Cut all her bits off. Send 'em back on the hour every hour. Show them we're not to be trifled with.
LEIA: And of course, we point out that they bear full responsibility when we chop her up, and that we shall not submit to blackmail!
REBELS: No blackmail!
LEIA: They've bled us white, the bastards. They've taken everything we had, and not just from us, from our fathers, and from our fathers' fathers.
WEDGE: And from our fathers' fathers' fathers.
LEIA: Yeah.
WEDGE: And from our fathers' fathers' fathers' fathers.
LEIA: Yeah. All right, Wedge. Don't labour the point. And what have they ever given us in return?!
SEE THREEPIO: The vaporators?
LEIA: What?
SEE THREEPIO: The vaporators.
LEIA: Oh. Yeah, yeah. They did give us that. Uh, that's true. Yeah.
CHEWBACCA: WOORRF! RORWUULF.
WEDGE: Oh, yeah, the sanitation droids, Leia. Remember what Mos Eisley used to be like?
LEIA: Yeah. All right. I'll grant you the vaporators and the sanitation droids are two things that the Imperials have done.
LANDO: And the hyperspace routes.
LEIA: Well, yeah. Obviously the hyperspace routes. I mean, the hyperroutes go without saying, don't they? But apart from the sanitation droids, the vaporators, and the hyperroutes--
REBEL #1: The starport.
ACKBAR: Medicine.
REBELS: Huh? Heh? Huh...
REBEL #2: Education.
REBELS: Ohh...
LEIA: Yeah, yeah. All right. Fair enough.
REBEL #1: And the spice.
REBELS: Oh, yes. Yeah...
LANDO: Yeah. Yeah, that's something we'd really miss, Leia, if the Imperials left. Huh.
REBEL #3: The Holonet.
WEDGE: And it's safe to walk in the streets at night now, Leia.
LEIA: Yeah, they certainly know how to keep order. Let's face it. They're the only ones who could in a place like this.
REBELS: Hehh, heh. Heh heh heh heh heh heh heh.
LEIA: All right, but apart from the sanitation droids, bacta, education, spice, public order, the spaceport, hyperspace routes, a fresh water system, and public health, what have the Imperials ever done for us?
SEE THREEPIO: Brought peace.
LEIA: Oh. Peace? Shut up!
Someone pounds on the door from outside.
SEE THREEPIO: I am a poor droid. My sight is poor. My legs are old and bent, and--
Han Solo and Luke Skywalker enter.
HAN: It's all right, Threepio.
SEE THREEPIO: It's all clear.
HAN: Well, where's Leia?
CHEWBACCA: HOOWL!
LEIA: What went wrong?
HAN: The first blow has been struck!
LEIA: Did he finish the slogan?
HAN: A hundred times, in letters ten foot high, all the way around the palace!
LEIA: Oh, great. Great. We-- we need doers in our movement, Luke, but... before you join us, know this: there is not one of us here who would not gladly suffer death to rid this galaxy of the Imperials once and for all.
REBEL #4: Uhh. Well, one.
LEIA: Oh, yeah. Yeah, there's one, but otherwise, we're solid. Are you with us?
LUKE: Yes!
INTERIOR: MOS EISLEY CANTINA
In a dim, dusty backroom, a group of rebels stand over a holographic map, planning their next strike.
ADMIRAL ACKBAR: We're gettin' in through the underground heating system here, up through into the main audience chamber here, and Tarkin's wife's bedroom is here. Having grabbed his wife, we inform Tarkin that she is in our custody and forthwith issue our demands. Any questions?
SEE THREEPIO: What exactly are the demands?
LEIA: We're giving Tarkin two days to dismantle the entire apparatus of the Galactic Imperialist State, and if he doesn't agree immediately, we execute her.
SEE THREEPIO: Cut her head off?
ACKBAR: Cut all her bits off. Send 'em back on the hour every hour. Show them we're not to be trifled with.
LEIA: And of course, we point out that they bear full responsibility when we chop her up, and that we shall not submit to blackmail!
REBELS: No blackmail!
LEIA: They've bled us white, the bastards. They've taken everything we had, and not just from us, from our fathers, and from our fathers' fathers.
WEDGE: And from our fathers' fathers' fathers.
LEIA: Yeah.
WEDGE: And from our fathers' fathers' fathers' fathers.
LEIA: Yeah. All right, Wedge. Don't labour the point. And what have they ever given us in return?!
SEE THREEPIO: The vaporators?
LEIA: What?
SEE THREEPIO: The vaporators.
LEIA: Oh. Yeah, yeah. They did give us that. Uh, that's true. Yeah.
CHEWBACCA: WOORRF! RORWUULF.
WEDGE: Oh, yeah, the sanitation droids, Leia. Remember what Mos Eisley used to be like?
LEIA: Yeah. All right. I'll grant you the vaporators and the sanitation droids are two things that the Imperials have done.
LANDO: And the hyperspace routes.
LEIA: Well, yeah. Obviously the hyperspace routes. I mean, the hyperroutes go without saying, don't they? But apart from the sanitation droids, the vaporators, and the hyperroutes--
REBEL #1: The starport.
ACKBAR: Medicine.
REBELS: Huh? Heh? Huh...
REBEL #2: Education.
REBELS: Ohh...
LEIA: Yeah, yeah. All right. Fair enough.
REBEL #1: And the spice.
REBELS: Oh, yes. Yeah...
LANDO: Yeah. Yeah, that's something we'd really miss, Leia, if the Imperials left. Huh.
REBEL #3: The Holonet.
WEDGE: And it's safe to walk in the streets at night now, Leia.
LEIA: Yeah, they certainly know how to keep order. Let's face it. They're the only ones who could in a place like this.
REBELS: Hehh, heh. Heh heh heh heh heh heh heh.
LEIA: All right, but apart from the sanitation droids, bacta, education, spice, public order, the spaceport, hyperspace routes, a fresh water system, and public health, what have the Imperials ever done for us?
SEE THREEPIO: Brought peace.
LEIA: Oh. Peace? Shut up!
Someone pounds on the door from outside.
SEE THREEPIO: I am a poor droid. My sight is poor. My legs are old and bent, and--
Han Solo and Luke Skywalker enter.
HAN: It's all right, Threepio.
SEE THREEPIO: It's all clear.
HAN: Well, where's Leia?
CHEWBACCA: HOOWL!
LEIA: What went wrong?
HAN: The first blow has been struck!
LEIA: Did he finish the slogan?
HAN: A hundred times, in letters ten foot high, all the way around the palace!
LEIA: Oh, great. Great. We-- we need doers in our movement, Luke, but... before you join us, know this: there is not one of us here who would not gladly suffer death to rid this galaxy of the Imperials once and for all.
REBEL #4: Uhh. Well, one.
LEIA: Oh, yeah. Yeah, there's one, but otherwise, we're solid. Are you with us?
LUKE: Yes!
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