[OT] today's random language gripe

[Negative Zero]

i'll start withthe end fist. you're right. i'm not from england. however. i am from the caribbean, and our education system is english. i choose when to and when not to stoop to using "american english" as i see fit. in an international community like this one, i don't see a problem with it. i choose to keep with the standards i've been taught.

now as for the rest of your post ... i have no power to stop anyone from using whatever form of whichever language they choose. nor did i ever claim to have such power. nor did i ask anyone to stop. i simply stated that certain things bug me. clearly you feel free to do the same. the difference between your post and mine is, you want me to conform to what you deem appropriate.

and while i'm at it, it's my high horse, and i'll ride it as long as i like. ... or just sit up here and look smug. i dunno, i'll figure it out as i go along. seriously tho, there's no need to get testy. can't we all just have fun here?

once again, the thing that bugs me is that some people don't know better. y'know, that ignorance thing that i mentioned. that's usually what it means; a lack of knowledge. *sigh* now i'm getting testy. i think i'll quit while i'm behind.

~NegZ

 

[Zaruthustran]

Get a rope.

Top three practices that knock a post of my "This post is worth considering" list:

1. Using "loose" when "lose" is intended. Example: Specialists always loose two schools!

2. Using "rouge" when "rogue" is intended. There's a single-error grace period for this one, since fast typing can cause transpositino. Example: A wight hit my rouge in last night's game and made him loose a level!

3. Using "thinking" as a noun. You hear this more than you read it. Example: My thinking is that we should have our rouges loose our pursuers!

-z

 

[Pielorinho]

See, I'm just the opposite. If someone's using nonstandard English because they're ignorant, they can be taught. But if they're doing it because they're too lazy to be bothered with standard English, it gets my jockeys all in a twist. Your laziness makes my job as a reader that much harder.

Too much laziness in writing, and I'll ignore your writing altogether.

I hate the misapplication of "right" and "wrong" to grammar and spelling (as my facetious post above about lexicobehavioralists pointed out). However, language is only effective if it communicates effectively. Standards of spelling, punctuation, and capitalization make that communication more powerful and more efficient: they make it far easier for you (the reader) to understand exactly what I mean.

The farther you deviate from the set of grammar/spelling rules that your reader follows, the harder time your reader will have understanding you. If you know what standards your reader follows and refuse to use them, that's downright inconsiderate.

At any rate, that's the take of one ex-grammar tutor, who had to read one too many sloppily-written papers.

Daniel

 

[Negative Zero]

good points all, Pielorinho. sounds just like what a teacher would say

~NegZ

 

[Shard O'Glase]

What about those of us who really could care less?

yeah cause I could care less, not much less but it's not as if I couldn't care less.

woo-hoo for bad grammar and word misuse.

 

[Shard O'Glase]

.

The farther you deviate from the set of grammar/spelling rules that your reader follows, the harder time your reader will have understanding you. If you know what standards your reader follows and refuse to use them, that's downright inconsiderate.

Daniel

Wierdly enough I'm almost the opposite. If the grammar/spelling is really bad and I don't understand the sentence wll then there are problems. But normally if things are too correct with all the periods in the right place, and everything capatilized correctly, I no longer read the post as a conversation but more like i'm reading a text book or a news paper. (which means my brain turn off as boredom sets in and 1/2 the message is lost and I have toruble understanding the post) Someone who is a bit more loose with the rules of grammar and spelling on the other hand when I read their posts it feels more like I'm casually chatting with them, and I acheive a higher level of understanding.

 

[SpiderMonkey]

"Language (and I'm including music in this argument) is not subjective--although it's interpretation can be."

Uh..."it's" when used with an apostrophe indicates the contraction "it is." If you want the possessive, leave it out, Mr. Objectivist. (Sorry- had to do it)

I just want to interject, because I'm in a linguistics class right now that's focusing on the evolution of English words and dialects. Language -is- subjective. The standardization of English is something of a historical accident. When Lowth composed the first prescriptive English grammar, he utilized rules derived from Latin, operating under the commonly held assumption that English was somehow derived from Latin. This simply isn't true. English is a Germanic language that has borrowed lexicon from Latin from the Romans (and later, the French). Rules like "don't split infinitives" come from this accident. The fact of the matter is that language can't possibly be objective because it evolves--the language spoken by the original Angles would be incomprehensible to a speaker of modern English.

While I agree that in print there should be some agreed-upon conventions, to state that spoken English doesn't influence "standard" English (whatever that is--American English? British English? Australian English?) is somewhat naive.

And besides, what makes the internet (particularly Email and Message Boards ) particularly fascinating is that it is where spoken and written language meet to become a hybrid that represents something entirely new. While I have my own pet peeves, I don't sweat them too much because it is this disregard for convention that brings about evolution.

Sorry for the diatribe! Thanks!

 

[Thorvald Kviksverd]

Hey, finally, a discussion where my (to this point) worthless degree in linguistics might prove useful!

Nevertheless, I will refrain

It has been my experience that discussions--much less debates-- concerning a person's native language tend to become a bit, shall we say, heated.

I will throw these two comments into the ring however. . .

1) The written language is secondary to the spoken, and;

2) Has anyone else noticed that the "-ly" ending for adverbs seems to be on the way out--even among the "educated"? A present day example of the evolution of language mayhaps. . .

 

[Vocenoctum]

I am a terrible speller and I hang my head in shame. My gripe is people who spell every last little thing to you over the phone when they want you to take down their info/order/other such thing.

I wrote a rant about these people :

I Can Spell The Word Street! S-T-R-E-E-T!

Read it if you're bored or something...

But my spelling is atrocious, so perhaps I shouldn't judge...

~Sheri

When I have to call in background checks or otherwise give information, I sometimes run into folks like that. Want you to spell out each word and such...

There was one that was so bad, we'd just hang up if she answered and call back until we got someone else.

 

[JiffyPopTart]

I kind of like to use the phrase "I could care less" as I think it has an implied sarcasm to it.

Much like saying "Boy, I really want to fight another one of those" after slaying the dragon at the end of the evening and piling up the dead PCs.

Top 1 thing that make me skip posts....

1. People who have a "signature" line that is bigger than their actual post.

DS