[OT] Yet another martial arts help thread.....so, please help!!
- Thread starter zdanboy
- Start date
LOL....
First I will not be responding to Lannon anymore in hopes he will get the message and perhaps read my posts more carefully.
I will state this for the last time and then be done with it:
In both of those fight's I described I had no choice but to defend myself....they happend so fast and were over so fast there was no getting out of it.
There have been oppetunites where I could have fought but chose not to. I feel neither the need nor would I want to describe more fights. I did post those ones for an illustration of what a fight can be like at least in my experience. I have trained to fight up to 12 people at once, but that is irrelevent to this discussion. I have no need nor do I want to beat my chest for bragging rights because I know what I can do, and I know this would not be the place to do that. I do not need that kind of Ego boost at all. I even wrote in my post a warning that martial arts is not just to learn to fight but to defend yourself. For the most part nobody outside my training hall knows I am a martial artist. Only those I choose to tell know, and most cannot believe it. I do not run around and say hey I am a martial artist come and get me.
I live by the warriors code and will help all who need help from me, including my enemies if the need should arise. I will post more on this if you want.
I am however posting here to give information to people who want information about Martial Arts. I also enjoy talking (typeing) about this stuff.
I think you have sufficient time to read this stuff and then post in a more intelligent mannor rather than picking a fight.
(Contact) and Tacky nice job in the explanaitions there...
Tacky we used to call that training the circle of death. We do that Hand to hand and with weapons. Also in both Wing Chun, Ninjutsu and Taihojutsu we did this type of multiple attack training pretty much from the start. Taiho was the Japenese Police Arresting Technique.
Seite Training with the sword will help you with up to 8 opponents as far as angles go. Seite training is the 10 forms of the Samurai taught and sanctioned by the Kendo Federation in Japan.
Later guys,
Darius
First I will not be responding to Lannon anymore in hopes he will get the message and perhaps read my posts more carefully.
I will state this for the last time and then be done with it:
In both of those fight's I described I had no choice but to defend myself....they happend so fast and were over so fast there was no getting out of it.
There have been oppetunites where I could have fought but chose not to. I feel neither the need nor would I want to describe more fights. I did post those ones for an illustration of what a fight can be like at least in my experience. I have trained to fight up to 12 people at once, but that is irrelevent to this discussion. I have no need nor do I want to beat my chest for bragging rights because I know what I can do, and I know this would not be the place to do that. I do not need that kind of Ego boost at all. I even wrote in my post a warning that martial arts is not just to learn to fight but to defend yourself. For the most part nobody outside my training hall knows I am a martial artist. Only those I choose to tell know, and most cannot believe it. I do not run around and say hey I am a martial artist come and get me.
I live by the warriors code and will help all who need help from me, including my enemies if the need should arise. I will post more on this if you want.
I am however posting here to give information to people who want information about Martial Arts. I also enjoy talking (typeing) about this stuff.
I think you have sufficient time to read this stuff and then post in a more intelligent mannor rather than picking a fight.
(Contact) and Tacky nice job in the explanaitions there...
Tacky we used to call that training the circle of death. We do that Hand to hand and with weapons. Also in both Wing Chun, Ninjutsu and Taihojutsu we did this type of multiple attack training pretty much from the start. Taiho was the Japenese Police Arresting Technique.
Seite Training with the sword will help you with up to 8 opponents as far as angles go. Seite training is the 10 forms of the Samurai taught and sanctioned by the Kendo Federation in Japan.
Later guys,
Darius
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This is what we used to recite before class and is the warrior code I spoke about earlier.
I am breaking it down by it's kanji names taken from Gyoko-Ryu style of Ninjutsu. We used a hand position from Mikkyo Buddhism when reciting this in Seiza position.
Jin - To nurture a smpathetic understanding of people: to consider the welfare of others, without degree of affluence, or their station in life: Universal humanitarianism.
Gi - Moral and ethical conduct: Humanitarian behavior toward all members of society
Rei - A manifestation of respect for others: courtesy.
Chi - Judgement and wisdom enhancement through increased persponal knowledge. This sometimes get's confused and is interpreted as personal power and is used as an excuse to 'strut' about as if they are some arrogant super human being. The true development of chi/qi fosters humility not pretentiousness.
Shin - Belief, faith; truthfulness at all times.
Chi - Earth, land; the earth provides nourishment for all things living; by providing food the earth fills the most fundamental need of human exisitance.
Sui - Water, the origin of mankind.
Ka - Fire, heart.
Fu - Wind; the wind moves the earth or soil; it blows away evil thoughts from the mind.
Ku - Sky; situated between heaven and earth, the sky covers mre than we are able to see; therefore we cannot see the extent of all it influences; the concept of Reiki or "spiritual mind" is within the realm of Ku; it can also be interpreted as empty mind or void. there is no accurate japenese translation for the word Ku.
Jin Gi, Rei Chi, Shin, Chi Sui, Ka Fu, Ku
The first part is the Bushido code and the last part is the go dai.
Just something interesting for you all to read...
Darius
I am breaking it down by it's kanji names taken from Gyoko-Ryu style of Ninjutsu. We used a hand position from Mikkyo Buddhism when reciting this in Seiza position.
Jin - To nurture a smpathetic understanding of people: to consider the welfare of others, without degree of affluence, or their station in life: Universal humanitarianism.
Gi - Moral and ethical conduct: Humanitarian behavior toward all members of society
Rei - A manifestation of respect for others: courtesy.
Chi - Judgement and wisdom enhancement through increased persponal knowledge. This sometimes get's confused and is interpreted as personal power and is used as an excuse to 'strut' about as if they are some arrogant super human being. The true development of chi/qi fosters humility not pretentiousness.
Shin - Belief, faith; truthfulness at all times.
Chi - Earth, land; the earth provides nourishment for all things living; by providing food the earth fills the most fundamental need of human exisitance.
Sui - Water, the origin of mankind.
Ka - Fire, heart.
Fu - Wind; the wind moves the earth or soil; it blows away evil thoughts from the mind.
Ku - Sky; situated between heaven and earth, the sky covers mre than we are able to see; therefore we cannot see the extent of all it influences; the concept of Reiki or "spiritual mind" is within the realm of Ku; it can also be interpreted as empty mind or void. there is no accurate japenese translation for the word Ku.
Jin Gi, Rei Chi, Shin, Chi Sui, Ka Fu, Ku
The first part is the Bushido code and the last part is the go dai.
Just something interesting for you all to read...
Darius
Goodness, where to begin?
Darius, not sure when the next
okan tournament is, I'll see what I can dig up, but I seem to remember it being in the late summer/early fall. And congrats on getting back into training. I just confirmed a vacation date to make the Dillman siminar in Chicago in May, so I'm pumped on that news myself!
Takyris, the foreknuckle and middle knuckle strikes are good stuff, but you can use smaller parts of the hand and arm to activate points, using presses, rubs and grips, and the hits can be little more than a light slap once you really get on the points. Look into working your up right application as either ground work or join manipulations along with the striking.
Lannon, as the others have said, your speaking on a subject where your only knowledge comes from a few moves, and ones that don't even begin to reflect the full scope of what the martial arts offer. While no person familar with what happens in a fight really wants to be in one, it sometimes happens. Bringing up the adage{SP} that "violence is never the answer" reveals a lack of experience or naivity. You have either turned a blind eye to the ralities of the world, had very little experience in it, or have maintained an optomistic outlook despite the realities of the world we all live in. Violence should not be the only answer available. But there are times when it is not only the right answer, but the only answer. Thankfully these occasions are few and far between, and most people will never be forced to come face-to-face with such an occurance. However, since a person lives with that possible eventuality, they have two choices, accept that it's going to happen and passively particiapate in the violence, accepting willingly whatever concequences come of it, or chosing to do soemthing on a physical level. This does not mean that anyone willing to resist has to train, but those who do train for the eventuality should not be berated because of their choses. Those who train are more responsibile for themselves and their actions because they have a better chance of controling and altering the outcome of a situation, be it avoiding the fight through skilled verbal de-excalation, convaying the proper body language to help avoid the fight, or dealing with the threat as it occures physically. Again I will say that those aware, or at least familar with the machanics of a fight are less likely to engage in one, or more properly less likely to engage in one lightly as they are aware of the concequences of their actions and the possible outcomes. Training the martial arts will also allow a person involved in a fight more options on how to deal with things if they do go bad. They don't have to go for the kill so to speak, but can use lesser levels of harm/force to control and end the situation.
Now you may believe that a pair of fights is a high number for a man who may be about twice your age, but its not rally. I would think that, save our legtious{SP, I mean to say sue happy!} society, the number of altercations would most likely rise. My brother in-law was beaten pretty baddly by three people who drug him unexpectedly from a parked car, used blunt weapons and then left without fear of reprisal. At the time none of the attackers had any training, one latter worked out at a boxing gym and tried to keep his reputation up through a few stratigic beatings. He bad mouthed a pro-kick boxer who moved to town, went to that man's workout place and tried to take him on, it didn't work. That kind of behavior, the reckless use of fighting skill, is not condoned or excepted by any of the local martial artists. We train very hard in high hopes that ,should all else fail, our skills will be sufficeint to meet the need to defend ourselves or someone else. Bullies in training don't last too long as they learn its not all about whipping tail and taking names, its about some many other things. There is the apprication of culture, of the bare honesty on the dojo floor when you can't hide behind words and false pretense, there is not space fore pride on the deck. What you are and what you do is lain bare fore the whole world to see. The level of trust that you can develope fore training partners, and the bounds of friendship that are often forged there are not to be taken lightly. Three of the five best friends I have ever in my life had are fellow martial artists that I have trained with. Each of them would, and has, dropped whatever they were doing to aid friends, myself included, at all hours of the day and night. Motives aren't questioned, reasoning isn't asked for and explainations come of the other person is willing to offer them, because each knows the other would do like wise. It is a cliche, but martial arts build character, through sweat, effort and mutual desire to learn.
And you may be under the impression that martial arts training leads to violence, but you'd be hard pressed to prove that in any way other than through contrived anocidal evidence. Getting into a fight is not done because of training, statistically it could well have happened anyway. The two most recient "fights" I've been involved in occured at work. In both cases it was for the protection of customers and other employees that I became involved, I'm a member of management, its part of my job to put myself at risk so others don't have to.
Lastly I would strongly suggest that you pick up Spiritual Foundations of Aikido. This work delves very well into what benefit can be gained through the martial arts.
Thanks all,
Kail
Darius, not sure when the next
okan tournament is, I'll see what I can dig up, but I seem to remember it being in the late summer/early fall. And congrats on getting back into training. I just confirmed a vacation date to make the Dillman siminar in Chicago in May, so I'm pumped on that news myself! Takyris, the foreknuckle and middle knuckle strikes are good stuff, but you can use smaller parts of the hand and arm to activate points, using presses, rubs and grips, and the hits can be little more than a light slap once you really get on the points. Look into working your up right application as either ground work or join manipulations along with the striking.
Lannon, as the others have said, your speaking on a subject where your only knowledge comes from a few moves, and ones that don't even begin to reflect the full scope of what the martial arts offer. While no person familar with what happens in a fight really wants to be in one, it sometimes happens. Bringing up the adage{SP} that "violence is never the answer" reveals a lack of experience or naivity. You have either turned a blind eye to the ralities of the world, had very little experience in it, or have maintained an optomistic outlook despite the realities of the world we all live in. Violence should not be the only answer available. But there are times when it is not only the right answer, but the only answer. Thankfully these occasions are few and far between, and most people will never be forced to come face-to-face with such an occurance. However, since a person lives with that possible eventuality, they have two choices, accept that it's going to happen and passively particiapate in the violence, accepting willingly whatever concequences come of it, or chosing to do soemthing on a physical level. This does not mean that anyone willing to resist has to train, but those who do train for the eventuality should not be berated because of their choses. Those who train are more responsibile for themselves and their actions because they have a better chance of controling and altering the outcome of a situation, be it avoiding the fight through skilled verbal de-excalation, convaying the proper body language to help avoid the fight, or dealing with the threat as it occures physically. Again I will say that those aware, or at least familar with the machanics of a fight are less likely to engage in one, or more properly less likely to engage in one lightly as they are aware of the concequences of their actions and the possible outcomes. Training the martial arts will also allow a person involved in a fight more options on how to deal with things if they do go bad. They don't have to go for the kill so to speak, but can use lesser levels of harm/force to control and end the situation.
Now you may believe that a pair of fights is a high number for a man who may be about twice your age, but its not rally. I would think that, save our legtious{SP, I mean to say sue happy!} society, the number of altercations would most likely rise. My brother in-law was beaten pretty baddly by three people who drug him unexpectedly from a parked car, used blunt weapons and then left without fear of reprisal. At the time none of the attackers had any training, one latter worked out at a boxing gym and tried to keep his reputation up through a few stratigic beatings. He bad mouthed a pro-kick boxer who moved to town, went to that man's workout place and tried to take him on, it didn't work. That kind of behavior, the reckless use of fighting skill, is not condoned or excepted by any of the local martial artists. We train very hard in high hopes that ,should all else fail, our skills will be sufficeint to meet the need to defend ourselves or someone else. Bullies in training don't last too long as they learn its not all about whipping tail and taking names, its about some many other things. There is the apprication of culture, of the bare honesty on the dojo floor when you can't hide behind words and false pretense, there is not space fore pride on the deck. What you are and what you do is lain bare fore the whole world to see. The level of trust that you can develope fore training partners, and the bounds of friendship that are often forged there are not to be taken lightly. Three of the five best friends I have ever in my life had are fellow martial artists that I have trained with. Each of them would, and has, dropped whatever they were doing to aid friends, myself included, at all hours of the day and night. Motives aren't questioned, reasoning isn't asked for and explainations come of the other person is willing to offer them, because each knows the other would do like wise. It is a cliche, but martial arts build character, through sweat, effort and mutual desire to learn.
And you may be under the impression that martial arts training leads to violence, but you'd be hard pressed to prove that in any way other than through contrived anocidal evidence. Getting into a fight is not done because of training, statistically it could well have happened anyway. The two most recient "fights" I've been involved in occured at work. In both cases it was for the protection of customers and other employees that I became involved, I'm a member of management, its part of my job to put myself at risk so others don't have to.
Lastly I would strongly suggest that you pick up Spiritual Foundations of Aikido. This work delves very well into what benefit can be gained through the martial arts.
Thanks all,
Kail
Drakmar
Explorer
hmm.. lets see.. I do Hung Gar Kung Fu. I have also done Tae Kwon Do, Wing Chun, and Aikido. I have been in a grand total of 0 fights in my life. And I am happy with that. Very happy. I have almost been in about 4. Talked my way out of all of them.
I have been described as a non-violent person. I would agree. The only times I have ever even been close to being violent was when my girlfriend of the time was threatened.. that got my hackles up.
And the reason why I do martial arts... well.. I like to be fit. I like to meditate... I use a martial art to focus my mind through my body.. and combine the two.. I find gyms boring and training much more social.
And I consider martial arts to be extremely benificial. A friend of mine from school, was a geek.. you know the kind, glasses, greasy black hair, flabby, hopeless at sports, brilliant mind, terrible at social interaction. Well.. he has been doing Hapkido for about 3 years now.. and he has changed significantly. His self-confidence has gone through the roof, his ability to relate to people has increased as well. And, he is quite fit. All good things in my mind.
And another reason.. a ex of mine who used to be clumsy, took up kickboxing and now is no longer clumsy. Now.. I realise that that could have been a fitness thing.. except she was already fit.
I believe that by focusing your mind through your body, you increase you co-ordination and therefore you self-confidence. If you are co-ordinated, then you are more confortable in your environment.
To me.. the ability to fight.. is the LEAST of the reasons to do any martial art. I love the tradition of the Kung Fu's, I love both the Internal and External exercises. And I seriously doubt I will ever be in a fight. I avoid them.
I have been described as a non-violent person. I would agree. The only times I have ever even been close to being violent was when my girlfriend of the time was threatened.. that got my hackles up.
And the reason why I do martial arts... well.. I like to be fit. I like to meditate... I use a martial art to focus my mind through my body.. and combine the two.. I find gyms boring and training much more social.
And I consider martial arts to be extremely benificial. A friend of mine from school, was a geek.. you know the kind, glasses, greasy black hair, flabby, hopeless at sports, brilliant mind, terrible at social interaction. Well.. he has been doing Hapkido for about 3 years now.. and he has changed significantly. His self-confidence has gone through the roof, his ability to relate to people has increased as well. And, he is quite fit. All good things in my mind.
And another reason.. a ex of mine who used to be clumsy, took up kickboxing and now is no longer clumsy. Now.. I realise that that could have been a fitness thing.. except she was already fit.
I believe that by focusing your mind through your body, you increase you co-ordination and therefore you self-confidence. If you are co-ordinated, then you are more confortable in your environment.
To me.. the ability to fight.. is the LEAST of the reasons to do any martial art. I love the tradition of the Kung Fu's, I love both the Internal and External exercises. And I seriously doubt I will ever be in a fight. I avoid them.
*snicker*
Heh. I havnt been talking about "moves" in any way shape or form. I could not care less about your kata or your martial arts style. My point was that by joining a violent institution you may well be inviting violence into your life. I have not said anything about violence not ever being the "answer." You have fabricated that notion with your own mind. I have said that you are, perhaps unintentionally, inviting violence into your life and wasting a good deal of time training yourself to hurt other people. I happen to thiink that their are more constructive and beneficial ways to spend your time than training in the martial arts.
At least you realize this.
I dont believe two fights are necessarily a high number. I do think that being in fights when you are a person over 20 years old indicates that there is something wrong. My father and uncle have not been in a fight since their teenage years each of them is nearing sixty years old. If they can do it then so can anyone else. My suggestion would be to increase your level of education so that you might earn a decent wage and live in a safer community.
We all have good friends. This is not a reasonable argument for the benefits of martial arts. Lots of things build character. I do not need to study martial arts to have all the benefits that you have described thus far (including the ability to avoid physical violence).
I have not provided any evidence. Instead I have voiced an opinion based on some experience with individuals in the martial arts. Anecdotal evidence by its definition cannot be contrived.
I do not have the time to waste on anything remotely "spiritual." I find the notion of spirituality to be a largely humorous topic and one that is entertainingly enough a large part of many martial artists vocabulary.
Kail said:
Heh. I havnt been talking about "moves" in any way shape or form. I could not care less about your kata or your martial arts style. My point was that by joining a violent institution you may well be inviting violence into your life. I have not said anything about violence not ever being the "answer." You have fabricated that notion with your own mind. I have said that you are, perhaps unintentionally, inviting violence into your life and wasting a good deal of time training yourself to hurt other people. I happen to thiink that their are more constructive and beneficial ways to spend your time than training in the martial arts.
Kail said:
At least you realize this.
Kail said:
I dont believe two fights are necessarily a high number. I do think that being in fights when you are a person over 20 years old indicates that there is something wrong. My father and uncle have not been in a fight since their teenage years each of them is nearing sixty years old. If they can do it then so can anyone else. My suggestion would be to increase your level of education so that you might earn a decent wage and live in a safer community.
Kail said:
We all have good friends. This is not a reasonable argument for the benefits of martial arts. Lots of things build character. I do not need to study martial arts to have all the benefits that you have described thus far (including the ability to avoid physical violence).
Kail said:
I have not provided any evidence. Instead I have voiced an opinion based on some experience with individuals in the martial arts. Anecdotal evidence by its definition cannot be contrived.
Kail said:
I do not have the time to waste on anything remotely "spiritual." I find the notion of spirituality to be a largely humorous topic and one that is entertainingly enough a large part of many martial artists vocabulary.
PatMefford
First Post
This from someone who trains to fight 12 people at once and says Grappling will never happen in a real fight?
Pat,
Did I actually say Grappling will never happen in a fight?
ummmmm you didn't read too carefully so I guess I will post the quote again.....
My Wing Chun teacher learned to control his center line and therefore avoid all grappling. Wing Chun was specific when it was created. It was created to fight against grappling techniques. I can eleaborate more but I can tell from your posting that you wouldn't care. If someone would like me to elaborate just ask.
Lannon you do not take into account the unexpected I see. I can only hope you do not learn a hard lesson one day in this cruel world. I had a friend that thought like you once...sadly he is no longer with us. He was attacked and killed for a $900 jacket ...he had given the jacket to the robbers and they shot him anyway. Perhaps it was just his time to go ...that is not for me to say as he is gone. He had a master degree in engineering and was a very intelligent man. Education had no bearing on his situation at all. Some things you cannot avoid ....Life is funny that way.
Couldn't help but to answer that,
Darius
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(contact)
Explorer
Re: *snicker*
Which seems to be logical on the surface, but in practice I have found the exact opposite to be true. My understanding of the Way Things Work in Wonderville tells me that most physical hostility arises out of fear-based emotional states. Fear of humiliation, fear of pain, what have you.
As the practicioner trains, they begin to face and integrate many of these fears, making them less likely in all reality to react from an emotional place when challenged! In my experience, I have yet to encounter anything *other* than martial training that has reliably allowed me to face and overcome my fears. Are you aware of something I am not in this regard? (I mean this question sincererly.)
Again, let me point out that not all traumatic situations are the result of person-to-person violence, but martial taining does help acclimate the practicioner to the shock and intense surreality of trauma, helping them to help others. We accomplish this through 'fighting', but its actual practice is more broad than just hitting or wrestling.
No, really.
Again, I fundamentally disagree that martial training is a waste of time, even for the non-violent.
Is there another single activity that provides all of the benefits of martial arts? Again, I am not aware of one, but would be very interested to hear about one.
And many non-martial artists of all shapes, sizes and walks of life!
That's an incredibly disrespectful and arrogant thing to say. Of course, you are entitled to do what you like with your own time, but to demean the beliefs of others in such an offhanded way . . . yikes!
Lannon said:
Which seems to be logical on the surface, but in practice I have found the exact opposite to be true. My understanding of the Way Things Work in Wonderville tells me that most physical hostility arises out of fear-based emotional states. Fear of humiliation, fear of pain, what have you.
As the practicioner trains, they begin to face and integrate many of these fears, making them less likely in all reality to react from an emotional place when challenged! In my experience, I have yet to encounter anything *other* than martial training that has reliably allowed me to face and overcome my fears. Are you aware of something I am not in this regard? (I mean this question sincererly.)
Again, let me point out that not all traumatic situations are the result of person-to-person violence, but martial taining does help acclimate the practicioner to the shock and intense surreality of trauma, helping them to help others. We accomplish this through 'fighting', but its actual practice is more broad than just hitting or wrestling.
No, really.
Again, I fundamentally disagree that martial training is a waste of time, even for the non-violent.
Is there another single activity that provides all of the benefits of martial arts? Again, I am not aware of one, but would be very interested to hear about one.
And many non-martial artists of all shapes, sizes and walks of life!
That's an incredibly disrespectful and arrogant thing to say. Of course, you are entitled to do what you like with your own time, but to demean the beliefs of others in such an offhanded way . . . yikes!
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