Out-monking a Monk in 20 levels.

[glass]

The 'no-Sordsages' thing is a bit of an odd stipulation, since the Swordsage is pretty much 'monk done right'. Still, with that in mind...

I'd second the Fighter for feats and bab: IUS is an obvious feat, as well as SUS -plus those feats that let you move and make multiple attacks (Bounding Assault, or some thing, IDNHMBIFOM). Boots can give the the enhanced move and haste for the extra attacks -and a monk's belt helps with unarmed attacks and AC too.

A few levels of rogue is nice for the extra damage, but how about Scout -synergises better with a mobile character, gives an AC bonus at higher levels, and fast movement (although sadly I don't think it stacks with boots).


glass.

 

[szilard]

A swift hunter with Two weapon fighting and improved (and superior) unarmed strike might be cool. You get mobility and you can alternate between a full attack with a mini-FoB due to two weapon fighting or skirmish damage. Ranger spells will help with some of the esoteric monk-things, particularly if you use the Spell Compendium. AC isn't bad when skirmishing. Saves are decent.

-Stuart

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

On swift hunter, you can also take a Ranger UA variant to get Barbarian fast movement, to add to the scout's, or hell. Just dip into Barbarian, too, take the Lion Totem variant for pounce, and shut down the "good full attack" argument for monks while you're at it, too.

Really though, the more I think about it, the more all this analysis seems pointless. A core Wildshaping Druid can cover most of this stuff good enough without much thought, unless the person's pedantic enough to cry foul at using natural attacks instead of unarmed. In which case...take IUS and Multiattack, pick a poncing form, and get your full attack unarmed + all your natural attacks as secondaries at -2 every round. There, win.

 

[szilard]

Really though, the more I think about it, the more all this analysis seems pointless. A core Wildshaping Druid can cover most of this stuff good enough without much thought, unless the person's pedantic enough to cry foul at using natural attacks instead of unarmed. In which case...take IUS and Multiattack, pick a poncing form, and get your full attack unarmed + all your natural attacks as secondaries at -2 every round. There, win.

Yeah, well, a druid is also capable of out-fightering the fighter, out-rangering the ranger, out-rogueing the rogue...

-Stuart

 

[Folly]

Yeah, well, a druid is also capable of out-fightering the fighter, out-rangering the ranger, out-rogueing the rogue...

-Stuart

While people say this, a druid can not achieve all of these in one build. By which I mean the druid does exactly what you said, of out performing those classes in every aspect that make that class.

Blanket statements are misleading and should never be used.

 

[Corsair]

While people say this, a druid can not achieve all of these in one build. By which I mean the druid does exactly what you said, of out performing those classes in every aspect that make that class.

Blanket statements are misleading and should never be used.

The fighter comment is pretty much always true. Animal companion + Wildshape = 2 warriors which are each individually almost as good as a fighter without even addressing buffs.

As for ranger, the druid spells embarrass the ranger spells, the animal companion is better, they get almost all the same skills, the druid is arguably a better melee warrior. So ranger's got a couple extra bonus feats and full BAB going for it, while the druid wins in pretty much every other category.

 

[Darklone]

There are many great ranger spells in SpC that are pretty worthwhile compared to many druid abilities.

But in general, a druid simply needs to change his spell preparation and he can outperform many other classes. Except for the sneak attack smackdown rogue. And the bard. Druids can never beat bards. Except with sticks.

 

[Folly]

The specifics of what I said was do all those things at once. They are heavily reliant on their spells to achieve their different goals. If they are using their spells for one thing then they cannot use it for another.

A base wildshape druid doesn't hold a candle against a fighter, even with animal companion. It requires buffing spells and equipment investment to make them as good or better. This investment of resources prevents them from outshining other classes. Druids can do everything well, but have to choose what they do.

 

[szilard]

The specifics of what I said was do all those things at once. They are heavily reliant on their spells to achieve their different goals. If they are using their spells for one thing then they cannot use it for another.

You actually said a single build - a single build of Druid can do all of those things. Spells can be changed on a daily basis (and many of them don't require much in the way of spells).

...and, honestly, Druids get enough spells that they can do several of those things the same day.

-Stuart

 

[Zelc]

But in general, a druid simply needs to change his spell preparation and he can outperform many other classes. Except for the sneak attack smackdown rogue.

Actually, there's a demon (Kevezu?) you can Shapeshift into that grants you +7d6 sneak attack.