Overestimating Party Strength

[JoeGKushner]

Well, in my Scarred Lands campaign, I have the following players:

Rannos:Fighter 1st- Rogue 2nd
Musaco: Monk 2nd
Brenin: Shaman 2nd -Barbarian 1st
Aramil: Barbarian 1st/Sorcerer 1st
Damian: Fighter 2nd

As you can tell they love to multi-class

Well, they are part of a mercenary unit called the Soldiers of Fortune who hail from the Toe Islands and function out of Mithril city. They have the backings of many of the major merchant houses who all like to get a piece of the action, especially since they have some information about the pirate activity in the Toes and certain houses still hold grudges.

Well, the party along with six 2nd level warriors and 1 6th level captain, are going to Mullis. The rogue, Rannos, scouting ahead spots a pack of the Proud, some odd 25 strong. With some urging from an overconfident captain, they decide to attack.

Well, all the warriors were killed, and suffice it to say only two players survived. Part of the problem was that the barbarain, in character mind you, refused to come out of his berserk rage when the group retreated, and that the shaman, traditionally the healer, took bear form and pretty much stayed in melee. Well, another part of the problem was that the monk, Musacco, stayed out of combat for a while trying to tumble around. The lack of an arcane spellcaster was also a little telling as the sorcerer only had defensive spells as part of his character.

Well, it did remind me not to overestimate the party. It also remdined me that while it's good to have powerful encounters ready for the group, that perhaps it's not always wise to overtest their strength. If the party had fought a little better the Proud might've had a route, but as it was, the group wound up rallying about the captain and the proud dragged away the carasses for dinner.

Anyone else ever overestime the strength of the party?

 

[Laruuk]

Why yes, yes I have.

I have a party of five 5th level characters.

Rogue
Fighter
Ranger
Cleric
Wizard

All single class.

I put them against a CR 7 Vampire (5th level fighter) named Luthar. He kicked their ass with dominate and the wolves he called. The party won thanks to a +1 heavy lance and some awesome die rolls by the fighter. In the end, however, the ranger was down 4 CON points, the cleric was at -3 HPs and the wizard was near death himself.

I figured a 5th level party of five (high-powered at that) would easily route a CR 7 Vampire.

He was just supposed to be a random encounter, now he is the party's nemesis and stalks them constantly.

hee hee hee

 

[Chimera]

Easy to do if someone in the party isn't doing their job, or is ineffective. Heck, IMLC, I had two fights go south in a big hurry.

In the first, one ranger went down for the count in the first round when he took an almost-max-damage flame strike, failing his save, then took a 3x, also near max damage critical from the Hobgoblin leader. Scratch the main fighter in the group. Things got rough from there.

In the second, all but one of a group of five 10th level characters were dropped by (relatively) minor monsters (CR 3) in one round when they could not manage to make Fort DC 14 rolls. It took some fancy (read: lucky) rolls from the one standing PC to save the day.

Just the way it goes. You can either live with the possibility that a "challenging" combat will kill too many and go completely pear shaped, or feed your players "baby food" encounters where they can't get hurt. Me, I'd rather be risking death than wander through a campaign knowing my GM will never present me with a real challenge for fear of killing me.

 

[JLXC]

This is why most people think mercenaries and adventurers (which sadly are the same thing most of the time) are CRAZY. Every fight could go badly.

Example:

5 7th level characters encounter 2 Trolls. They kill one NO PROBLEM.

The second attacks the party Cleric rolling 3 criticals in a ROW, in one round, then rending all for near max damage The cleric goes into negatives. The party is in awe. They attack and all rolls 1's and 2's missing. The troll then attacks the party fighter getting 2 criticals (20's) and rends all for maximum damage. She tries to back off but forgets AoO in her panic and I crit her AGAIN for near max damage and She goes down! This fight went on and most of the party was Severely injured or dying by the end of it.

Then my brain exploded from all the 20's and 19's I had been rolling, and I got the worst nose bleed of my life from nowhere. The journal page still has the blood on it.

I said that Vaprak, the god of trolls, was pissed and made the troll his Avatar for a short time... and they totally agreed.

There is no WAY for the DM to design encounters that may not kill you. That's why adventuring is dangerous, sorry.

 

[333 Dave]

"Then my brain exploded from all the 20's and 19's I had been rolling, and I got the worst nose bleed of my life from nowhere."

LOL! Thats a great quote! Man, I might have to put that in my sig....

 

[JLXC]

333 Dave Yeah life is funny like that. My players all said it was Their gods attempt to save them through assassination of the DM.

 

[Varius]

I once killed an entire 5th level party with an imp, and a 50 foot spike pit. The players knew the pit was there, but the imp suprised them.

 

[JoeGKushner]

Man, an imp and a 50' pit eh? Impressive. This isn't the first time I overestimated the party's strength though. Part of the problem is that some of the players are above average in terms of what they can do and how they act but others are so...stupid that the few great players cannot say the group.

 

[Weeble]

Re: Why yes, yes I have.

I have a party of five 5th level characters.

Rogue
Fighter
Ranger
Cleric
Wizard

All single class.

I put them against a CR 7 Vampire (5th level fighter) named Luthar. He kicked their ass with dominate and the wolves he called. The party won thanks to a +1 heavy lance and some awesome die rolls by the fighter. In the end, however, the ranger was down 4 CON points, the cleric was at -3 HPs and the wizard was near death himself.

I figured a 5th level party of five (high-powered at that) would easily route a CR 7 Vampire.

He was just supposed to be a random encounter, now he is the party's nemesis and stalks them constantly.

hee hee hee

Interesting! I have a similar situation coming up.

 

[Ace]

Overestimated party strength.

Definetly. First game I ran with 3e rules the party went into a cranberry bog to rescue a bunch of children who had disappeared.

The problem was I used for abductors I usedOgres against a party of 6 1st level characters. DoH!

Fortuantly after the first encounter I caught on in time and nerfed the rest of the ogres.

They have been hungry, no thats not right, err starving and they are sick too, thats it..

Heck it gave me an excuse to have oges in the area attack children and other than the panicked expression my face it worked out fine