D&D 4E Paizo and 4e.

[BASHMAN]

Where have they stated this? I would like to see a quote supporting this position. If I am not mistaken, the is SRD being released when the core books are launched.

http://www.enworld.org/index.php?page=4e#ogl

I think I exagerated a little. The SRD they say is no later than July 08, but that was also when they said PHB may of 08, so take it w/ a grain of salt.

 

[Odhanan]

Is it because you believe progress in "inarguably good" that you consider "some grognards" to be seriously deluded people, Mourn?

I find you consistently and almost continually condescending towards people who do not share your opinions, and that really starts to rub me the wrong way. Please stop it.

And just for the record:

It also seems somewhat insulting to imply that the developers don't have a firm grasp on the reality of the game they've been developing for years now (especially since many of them are veteran 3e developers), by suggesting that they're either delusional (illusions) or naive (wishful thinking).

Please. If you don't understand what I mean, ask me. Don't "assume" or put words in my mouth like that. That too is really rubbing me the wrong way.

Yes, the belief that progress is always good is either delusional and/or naive. Sometimes things change in good. Sometimes in bad. That's it. They do change. After everyone is just left with the question "do I want to go with the change?" or not.

You tell me that I've already made my decision "as if I had read the finished product". Not correct. It sure seems to me that you'd like me to make an "informed decision" by buying the whole idea of "progress" and "fixes"... hype for lack of a better word as it relates to 4E.

I do not ascribe these beliefs or motives (of delusion and naivety) to the developers (and/or designers) of the game. I don't know what they believe. I can suspect, however, that they are pimping 4E because that's their job. That doesn't mean anything about their belief or character.

When I'm talking to you, I'm talking to you. When I'm talking to developers and designers, I say so. I hope you understand better.

 

[Geron Raveneye]

Folks, do us all a favour and don't bring the lock down on this thread by starting personal arguments, okay? There are report buttons and ignore lists for exactly those cases.

 

[Piratecat]

Folks, do us all a favour and don't bring the lock down on this thread by starting personal arguments, okay? There are report buttons and ignore lists for exactly those cases.

Almost, but not quite, too late.

I see blatant personal attacks. I see people ascribing motivations to others. Frankly, I'm tired of both when people should know better. Next person to do so again gets their post removed and/or a lengthy site vacation to remind themselves of the rules here.

Keep the thread focused, please. If you want to be nasty to someone, and you can't phrase your question or statement politely, better not to post!

 

[Treebore]

I definitely don't envy Erik his position. He has to make a decision that effects the lives of 26 people and their families.

Its times like this when it sucks to be the boss.

 

[The Little Raven]

Removed by Admin. We're not kidding about no bickering. ~ Piratecat

 

[Shortman McLeod]

If you collapse into a nervous pile of quivering jelly when you try to DM 3.5, then there's obviously a problem. That's like saying I collapse to the ground whenever I put weight on my right leg... but my right leg couldn't possibly be the problem. Sounds like denial to me.

I'm not in denial!

Seriously tho, I don't think the problem with DMing 3.5 is inherent in the system, but it's just that I don't have the time or energy to do it. But admittedly, enough people have made the same claim as I have that WotC is billing 4e as "faster and easier to run". So perhaps you're right, at that.

 

[Shortman McLeod]

I don't support every notion they put forth. But I find the suggestion that they should cease to use terms like improvement, fix, and upgrade to be completely silly. If a company isn't willing to call their new product and improvement over the last, then why should anyone buy it?

I agree, to a point. It is perfectly reasonable to call a new product an improvement. But it's the whole "fix" thing that grates on me. It's a misapplied metaphor that implies the old game is "broken", meaning "doesn't work." And that's nonsense.

 

[Piratecat]

Mourn, it's possible you hadn't read my post when you posted. Please do so then edit your post to completely remove the bickering argument. I'd rather not need to do it for you.

Thank you.

 

[Darkwolf71]

<snip>
They've also stated publicly a number of times that they love 4e and where it's taking D&D, and hype it because of that love. By casting doubt on the sincerity of their claims (by saying it's just their job, not that they actually love it), there's an implication that they are deceiving us (they don't actually love it, they're just saying that to pay the bills).
<snip>

Have you seen one single instance of one of the designers/developers saying, "Man, I really don't like this particular aspect that we are changing, but everyone else thinks it's great so it's going in."? Probably not. Why? Well it would be counter-productive. Even if it's true.

Nothing really wrong with that, it's part of the sell.

As for the end product being good or not, I'm sure the designers of New Coke thought they were doing the most amazing thing for their company. Luckily they were able to recover from that blunder.