Paladins: Lawful Good only and other restrictions

[Incenjucar]

The DnD paladin comes from Charlemagne that is what it was designed from and that is what I am talking about when I say history. Are there other types of knight in history yes there are and DnD as often attempted to make them.

I am talking game history of DnD. Not gaming history in general.

And nothing is stopping you from playing it any way your group wants to play it. I am pretty sure the gaming police will not come to your house kick in the door and take your books if you choose to have paladins in your game that are not restricted to lawful good.

If 5E chose to do away with the alignment restriction it is not a deal breaker for me because I can house rule it the way I like it. The same way you can house rule it if they do it how you would prefer it.

D&D paladins have changed over the years. In previous editions, they had rules for non-LG paladins. It's an option people WANT. Give it to them. It doesn't hurt the Charlemagne concept if a paladin of freedom can also heal the sick.

The character builder could actually stop people. Living Whatever could stop people. DMs who are afraid to venture from the rules could stop people. You have to keep these factors in mind. It's not just fluff anymore when parts of the game hard code it away, and when there is a known history of DMs who have no confidence in themselves.

 

[jonesy]

I never read the official rules for Monopoly until very recently and I have been playing for around 50 years. I never realized putting money into the middle that you win if you land on free parking is not an official rule.

I've been playing chess regularly with my dad since I was 7 or 8. Only a couple of years ago I heard about En Passant (where you can get a free kill if an opposing pawn moves past yours).

 

[Tequila Sunrise]

So how did all those DM cope before the internet? I have been playing since the 70s and I saw plenty of DMs house rule and change things all the time.

That either makes you lucky, me unlucky, or both.

I'm not saying a 'net DM automatically equals a house rule DM. I'm saying that depressingly few DMs I've known have been willing to ignore alignment restrictions, even as subjective as they can be.

My experience with DMs is that being on the internet has nothing to do with being able to house rule things. Most of the DMs I play with and one that I consider the best DM ever do not spend time on gaming forums. The one DM who I knew who spends a lot of time here and on the WOTC forums was one of the most rigid I have ever played with every thing had to e by the RAW.

Wow, that's interesting. IME, DMs who frequent game forums tend to understand the whys and hows of the game a bit better as a result of discussion. And so they're a little more willing to ignore certain areas of RAW. Whereas DMs who discuss things only with their groups tend to assume that RAW has a deeply-buried rhyme and reason, and so are stricter about stuff like restrictions.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

Wow, six pages already and this is the *second* thread the 5E board has had on Paladin alignment!

Put me in the "Paladins must be LG" camp. You can have another divine champion class for other alignments; just don't call it a Paladin. That class has it's D&D baggage already firmly established.

 

[Incenjucar]

Wow, six pages already and this is the *second* thread the 5E board has had on Paladin alignment!

Put me in the "Paladins must be LG" camp. You can have another divine champion class for other alignments; just don't call it a Paladin. That class has it's D&D baggage already firmly established.

What was the last edition that paladins only came in LG flavor? AD&D?

 

[satori01]

D&D paladins have changed over the years. In previous editions, they had rules for non-LG paladins. It's an option people WANT. Give it to them. It doesn't hurt the Charlemagne concept if a paladin of freedom can also heal the sick

3E had optional rules years down the line from initial release, for different Paladin types. 1E did not. 2E might have had something late in it's life cycle but it was rather optional if it did exist.

I would much rather see a specialized Traditional Paladin class, and then another class like The Champion from Arcana Unearthed. If I was playing a Champion of Freedom, I would not want just a re-skinned Paladin.

 

[jonesy]

What was the last edition that paladins only came in LG flavor? AD&D?

There was a 1E anti-paladin in Dragon #39. There were paladins for various alignments in Dragon #106. And I think there were evil paladins in Unearthed Arcana.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

What was the last edition that paladins only came in LG flavor? AD&D?

3.5E at core. Later splatbooks may have introduced variations. IIRC 4E defaulted to "good" -- close enough. No CN Paladins running around anywhere by core rules ...

 

[Incenjucar]

Right. So non-LG paladins have been canon for the almost the entirety of the game.

So much for that baggage.

 

[El Mahdi]

Sorry, but it is not the Paladin, but the Cleric. The Knights Templar were the the influence for the Cleric class.

How is it muddled by using the name of The Peers of Charlemagne when Gygax has stated on these forums that they were the source of inspiration for the Paladin.

Yes and No. They were only one of the inspirations, and only parts of them were used for the D&D Paladin. Templars were most obviously not restricted to using bludgeoning weapons, as Clerics are. Turning Undead also has nothing to do with Templars, and is unique to Clerics. Also, Charlemagne's Paladins had absolutely no connection to using Magic, except for Maugris (a Sorcerer), and Archbishop Turpin (a Priest, who did not use a sword but used bludgeoning weapons only, one of the direct inspirations for the Cleric). And also on the subject of Charlemagne's Paladins, not all of them were Knights (including the aforementioned Sorcerer and Priest, there was also a converted Barbarian Dane, Ogier, and a converted Saracen Warrior, Feirebras)

So, the origins of Paladins, Chevaliers, and Clerics have mixed and matched parts from many different fictional Archetypes...so I think "Muddled" does apply.