Parrying as a bonus to AC

[DanMcS]

I'm not a big fan of parrying as yet another roll in the round. Particularly at high levels, this tends to bog things down. I'd like to try it as a bonus to AC, based on the skill of the parry-er.

What do you (all) think of this feat?

Parry:
Prereq: BAB +5, Combat Expertise
If you are wielding a melee weapon, you may give up an AoO to add 1/5 your BAB + your strength bonus as a dodge bonus to your armor class versus one melee attack.

I think I would make Parry only give one of these per round, actually, and then an Improved Parry that lets you use more than one AoO/round (as from Combat Reflexes) for parrying.

 

[Pyrex]

How about Parry = Fighting Defensively?
Or Really Really Parrying = Total Defense?

(now on to answering your question)
1: If the PC has Wpn Finesse & is wielding a Finessable wpn, they should be able to add Dex instead of Str.

2: Given that very frequently PC's don't have the option to make an AOO during the round, getting +5 or more to AC for one feat is just overpowered.

2a: C'mon, every 18+Str Bbn/Ftr/Rgr is going to take this feat for a guaranteed +5 to AC.

2b: I realize it's only vs one attack/round, but it's the big things that hit hard that really make the feat shine.

 

[DanMcS]

How about Parry = Fighting Defensively?
Or Really Really Parrying = Total Defense?

Well, normally, parrying is well represented by combat expertise, but I wanted to put another feat in the chain.

(now on to answering your question)
1: If the PC has Wpn Finesse & is wielding a Finessable wpn, they should be able to add Dex instead of Str.

2: Given that very frequently PC's don't have the option to make an AOO during the round, getting +5 or more to AC for one feat is just overpowered.

2a: C'mon, every 18+Str Bbn/Ftr/Rgr is going to take this feat for a guaranteed +5 to AC.

2b: I realize it's only vs one attack/round, but it's the big things that hit hard that really make the feat shine.

So, one for overpowered.

Would it be better as just +1 per 5 BAB, ignoring stat bonuses altogether?

The barbarian/fighter/whatever would have to sink a feat into combat expertise, which takes them off their normal "weapon focus-cleave-great cleave- HULK SMASH" feat acquisition path, so I'm not sure it's as entirely overpowered as you think.

My thought with adding the stat bonus to the parry bonus was that +1 at 5th level, or +4 at 20th level, isn't really enough to make a difference. You might parry one of their iterative followup attacks, which I suppose is still pretty good.

 

[shmoo2]

our parry bonus

In our campaign, all characters get a dodge bonus to AC equal to 1/2 (class related) BAB, minus the dex penalty of any armor worn. This is a parry bonus, with the assumption that learning how to fight well includes knowing how to defend yourself against attacks.

Masterwork armor prices have been increased some.

This has the effect at higher levels of _some_ characters giving up heavy armor for lighter types, and helps out the wizards a bit.

The DM gives out less treasure to keep things balanced.

We like it because the PC abilities end up tied more to inherent skill and less to their treasure.

You could pretty easily change this to a feat (chain) if you so desired.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

I have to disagree with Combat Expertise. You shouldn't need the feat to parry. Lots of not-so-bright fighters have learned how to defend themselves.

 

[Aaron2]

I have to disagree with Combat Expertise. You shouldn't need the feat to parry. Lots of not-so-bright fighters have learned how to defend themselves.

You can with Fighting Defensively. Combat Expertise just makes you better at it.

I allow you to deduct any amount while Fighting Defensively (similar to CE) but you only add 1/2 the penatly to AC. I also removed the +5 limit on CE since it doesn't make sense (forex Power Attack has no such limit). Finally, if you are wielding a weapon that is capable of parrying (ie. swords, staffs and -not- axes) and don't attack with it you get a +1 Parry bonus to AC.

I'm hesitant to give out huge AC bonuses since it causes more problems that it fixes.


Aaron

 

[FireLance]

I have to disagree with Combat Expertise. You shouldn't need the feat to parry. Lots of not-so-bright fighters have learned how to defend themselves.

Of course fighters know how to defend themselves. That's why their opponents need to make attack rolls.

Parrying without affecting your ability to attack = normal AC.
Parrying to the extent that it affects your fighting prowess = Fighting defensively (-4 to hit, +2 AC or +3 AC with 5 ranks of Tumble)
Giving up all your normal attacks to parry = Total defence (+4 AC or +6 with 5 ranks of Tumble)

Combat Expertise just allows you to do a better trade-off, or trade-off even more offense for defence.

 

[DanMcS]

You can with Fighting Defensively. Combat Expertise just makes you better at it.

Aye, and hit points. Taking the hit on your shield, or blocking the guy's punch with your forearm, or his kick with your leg, is hit point damage, really.

 

[GreatLemur]

I like the way the Conan d20 game handles parrying, personally. Basically, it replaces Armor Class (unless you choose to dodge instead of parry), since armor supplies Damage Reduction instead of blocking attacks. Different classes get different progressions of parry and dodge bonuses. Parrying gets bonuses from Strength, and dogding gets bonuses from Dexterity.

 

[Aaron2]

I like the way the Conan d20 game handles parrying, personally. Basically, it replaces Armor Class (unless you choose to dodge instead of parry), since armor supplies Damage Reduction instead of blocking attacks. Different classes get different progressions of parry and dodge bonuses. Parrying gets bonuses from Strength, and dogding gets bonuses from Dexterity.

What are the progressions of the dodge and parry bonuses? How high do they go relative to BAB?


Aaron