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PF2E Pathfinder 2E's African-inspired Sourcebook

Paizo has announced Lost Omens: Mwangi Expanse for June 2021, a setting sourcebook which delves into an African-themed area of Golarion. At over 300 pages, the book also includes six new ancestries -- Anadi, Conrasu, Gnoll, Goloma, Grippli, and Shisk.

It will be followed by the Strength of Thousands adventure path, where you play students at the Magaambya magic academy in the Mwangi Expanse.

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Last edited:
Russ Morrissey

Comments

Malkinban

The Torn
We can agree to disagree. You are a company whose job it is to provide a service to its customers, and that is to provide a game that WE want to play. And there wasn't a huge base crying for 2e, we were all content with 1e and it showed.
I think you are taking some generous leaps in using “we” and saying that “we” were all content with 1E. 1E was creaking on the weight of an already refurbished chassis. There were plenty of people that were ready for something new, evidenced by so many old Pathfinder players switching to 5E and there are plenty of people that love the new 2E.

If your evidence that Pathfinder 2E is not being received well is based on the tiny minority of players/GMs that posted on the Paizo boards or the fact that 2E isn’t outselling 5E then I don’t know what to tell you. With 5E’s enormous success and brand penetration, Pathfinder 2E would have to do something spectacular or more likely, WOTC would really have to mess things up to lose the crown to Paizo.
 

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GreyLord

Hero
I think you are taking some generous leaps in using “we” and saying that “we” were all content with 1E. 1E was creaking on the weight of an already refurbished chassis. There were plenty of people that were ready for something new, evidenced by so many old Pathfinder players switching to 5E and there are plenty of people that love the new 2E.

If your evidence that Pathfinder 2E is not being received well is based on the tiny minority of players/GMs that posted on the Paizo boards or the fact that 2E isn’t outselling 5E then I don’t know what to tell you. With 5E’s enormous success and brand penetration, Pathfinder 2E would have to do something spectacular or more likely, WOTC would really have to mess things up to lose the crown to Paizo.
I'd imagine it's based on comparison numbers (from such things as online RPG surveys which show that online games of PF1, at least those that I saw, still outnumber PF2 despite PF2 being the actively supported RPG with new material being brought out for it. In addition, comparison of how sales of PF2 are doing in relation to other RPGs). Still, if Paizo is all behind PF2 currently, that indicates that PF2 is doing well.

There are numbers we have no idea about (subscriptions directly from Paizo, sales on their site, etc) that could amount to a LOT more than what people are seeing otherwise. PF2 could be their best seller yet for all we know.

This sounds really interesting, although considering recent enhanced focus and sensitivity on matters of this nature I hope the book was very carefully compiled.
One of our groups members is an avid Pathfinder player and tried to convince us to switch to PF2e (they did not succeed). We've had various fallouts and returns with them over the past few years, and they constantly try to convince us to do Pathfinder campaigns. We occasionally humor them with PF1e where they DM.

I have lost much of my interest in PF as I'm not a big individual into 3e or the subsequent systems these days. HOWEVER...the mention of this book sparks my interest. This may be interesting enough for me to pick up, and I support the endeavor which spreads awareness and thought into different communities than is normal for our RPG community these days. Whether it is PF or not, this has perked my interest. It seems interesting.

One thing that MIGHT turn me off is if it is NOT primarily written by POC and more specifically those with backgrounds, or a cultural and ancestral heritage which traces back to Africa. Too often we have those of European descent dictating what other cultures should be written as, rather than refer to those from those actual cultures and backgrounds.

Many times, especially in the RPG community, these writers and creators are excluded. This would be especially heinous considering the material this source book covers.

I know it is a fantasy world, but this area of Golarion I think refers specifically to areas with a close relation to portions of our world, and as such, attention to things occurring in our world would seem tantamount to me.

With the right writers behind this, as well as editors and producers, call me EXTREMELY interested in supporting such a product. At this point I'd probably pick it off of Amazon (so, Paizo, price it accordingly to make a profit, sometimes those Amazon prices seem way to low to be making money off of them) as that is recently my go to place for many of my purchases (blame the pandemic).
 

Nilbog

Snotling Herder
I personally think the beauty of these books is they are to a degree system/edition agnostic, sure there will be a percentage of the book that is crunch that relates to pf2e, but I'd be surprised if it's more than 25%

I appreciate the bestiary section of this book will be a miss for those playing 1st ed, but given the strength of the community, I'd be surprised if there aren't conversions online quickly after its release.

I play pf2e so I'm obviously biased, but because it's has drawn me into the world of golarion, I've purchased a few of the 1st edition books, such as inner sea god's, and despite all the crunch not being directly useful to me, I've found the books to be a great investment.
 

imagineGod

Adventurer
Not blaming Paizo, since many corporate employers simply gravitate towards people they already know.

Though, If a company looks farther afield for talent, sometimes that creative talent can be found in different places but in similar creative industries.

For example, I was fortunate to stumble upon the Kickstarter for "Malika: Warrior Queen" which is a comic book (and yes, Paizo does comic books too), for an African Warrior Queen that would fit perfectly into the Mwangi Expanse. The creator of the project, Roye Okupe, is sadly, not a games designer.

Then there are designers who do third party work for Paizo, for example, Louis Porter Jr., but whose name I have never seen in core publications, only on third party independent work using the Pathfinder SRD.

kickstarter_malika_warrior_queen.jpg
 


imagineGod

Adventurer
And some of us never really played Pathfinder 1st Edition, since D&D3.5 was still a thing at that time, hence, the publication of Pathfinder 2nd Edition has won many new fans, namely me. Plus, that 3-action economy, I sometimes wish D&D 5th Edition adopts that, so much easier than standard action, full round, action, etc.
 

CapnZapp

Legend
Is it just me or could we discuss 1E elsewhere and keep this discussion focused on the actual offering?

After all, Paizo has moved on. 1E is the past, 2E is the present.

Thanks

I hope this is good, partly because few to no previous "fantasy Africa" rpg supplements have been.
 

Green Onceler

Explorer
Least you could do to the 1e fanbase that felt utterly betrayed like what WotC did to us with the 3e to 4e switch.
I don't think you need to feel so bitter about the situation. Like you, I also greatly prefer PF1 to the current iteration. However, I do not feel bitter that Paizo has moved on at all. It's actually liberating. I currently own far more 1e content than I'll ever get to use. Paizo have served us very well in that regard.

I now no longer feel compelled to pick up new Pathfinder product, which leaves much more expendable income to investigate other games. I'm finding myself more and more interested in non-fantasy games, as my 1e Pathfinder library has me pretty much set in that regard.
 

Retreater

Legend
Who converted the Pathfinder Kingmaker 10th Anniversary to both 5th Edition D&D and 1st Edition Pathfinder? Paizo staff or contractors hired just for that one job?
I think Legendary Games (or at least some of their staff) were involved in the conversion?
If you are looking for more PF1 content, I believe Legendary Games and Frog God Games are still in the business of that. Show the 3PPs some support to keep PF1 alive, if you're a fan of that system.
As for me, I am currently GMing and enjoying PF2 (along with 5e, OSE, & Swords and Wizardry). The rules systems are just tools for me to get the experience I want for each game, on a case-by-case basis.
 

Eyes of Nine

Everything's Fine
One thing that MIGHT turn me off is if it is NOT primarily written by POC and more specifically those with backgrounds, or a cultural and ancestral heritage which traces back to Africa. Too often we have those of European descent dictating what other cultures should be written as, rather than refer to those from those actual cultures and backgrounds.
Would love to hear from @James Jacobs on how Paizo will be handling this particular concern.

My expectation is Paizo will be using a combination of internal resources, freelancers, and cultural consultants. But the cultural mix of those folks? I hope they have plenty of folks well versed in Africa. I will also continue to remind myself that Mwangi is NOT Africa; even though it's very clearly inspired by, or an homage to Africa. (And more specifically, central Africa; since the desert areas of the north are covered by Thuvia and Osiria...)
 

James Jacobs

Adventurer
Would love to hear from @James Jacobs on how Paizo will be handling this particular concern.

My expectation is Paizo will be using a combination of internal resources, freelancers, and cultural consultants. But the cultural mix of those folks? I hope they have plenty of folks well versed in Africa. I will also continue to remind myself that Mwangi is NOT Africa; even though it's very clearly inspired by, or an homage to Africa. (And more specifically, central Africa; since the desert areas of the north are covered by Thuvia and Osiria...)
We've handled it by hiring a lot of POC to write the book, and by making sure that we get more POC working on sensitivity reads and editorial passes. That was always a primary goal for this book, and making sure we got the right people for the job is part of why we're putting the book out next year instead of this year—we took extra time to make sure we did it right and got the right authors.

(We talked a bit about how the book came together on our PAX seminar a week or two ago, which I believe you can catch over on the YouTubes these days?)
 

James Jacobs

Adventurer
I think Legendary Games (or at least some of their staff) were involved in the conversion?
If you are looking for more PF1 content, I believe Legendary Games and Frog God Games are still in the business of that. Show the 3PPs some support to keep PF1 alive, if you're a fan of that system.
As for me, I am currently GMing and enjoying PF2 (along with 5e, OSE, & Swords and Wizardry). The rules systems are just tools for me to get the experience I want for each game, on a case-by-case basis.
Yup; we hired Legendary Games to do the first pass. We're deep in the second, internal dev pass for all of this now, and will likely be calling in more contractors in the future to help with the final edit/dev pass for the 5E stuff (we've got plenty of in-house 1E experts already).
 

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