Paying for Game Day

[Perram]

I am Buck, the manager at Dr. No's Comics and Games.

The last time we ran a D&D event for free (Players handbook 2), everyone who attended had already purchased the book from Amazon or elsewhere. They took space away from our customers who had wanted to play and those customers felt they deserved to play for being our customers. I agree with them.
To solve this we only allow our customers to participate in these type of events (unless otherwise specified by the Publisher.) If a person wants to take part in our events at the tables we designate for "Members Use Only," (as is posted in the gaming area and on the advertising on the television in the game area) they simply have to become a customer, even if it is for that day only. It is a simple policy and is in no way hidden.
Many of you have stated that letting "Free" play would bring in new customers. The "Free D&D Day" and the release weekend of Players Handbook 2, did not gain us any customers. Most said they were from other stores (who do not provide space at all for games.) They did not buy anything that day and left trash behind when they left. I never saw any of those folks again. That day is what changed our policy to what it is now. If someone is not going to be a customer of a store, they should not demand that the store then provide "free" space for play.
Our customers have our table space reserved for them. I would hope your store would do the same for you.

Your situation sounds unfortunate, but I still believe (as a manager of a game store myself faced with the exact same problems) that your solution to the problem is not optimal.

What we do at our store is provide discounts on related products any time we have an in store event. For Game Day we give participants 10% off any D&D related purchases if they play. And they get to play for free. And it works quite well for us.

The same holds true for any organized play groups or gaming clubs that we allow to play at our space. They get discounts (the same 10% in almost all cases) on the play days. We've found they appreciate this treatment and in turn do not buy from other sources such as Amazon, even if it is slighlty cheaper.

By doing this we encourage new players to get into the hobby. If they know that they will have people that they can play with at any time, they are much more willing to 'buy into' the product. THE most common excuse that we git at our store is: "Man this looks like fun, but I wouldn't have anyone to play it with." When we can answer with "Oh, they play that here every week on [some day and time] come in and check it out." We have a MUCH better chance at making that sale.

And universally when the play groups dry up for one reason or another, sales of their game drop like a rock.



And finally: At the VERY least, the fact that one of your DMs didn't know enough of the details of the specifics of your event that he came here asking us about it means that you need to be MUCH clearer on your policies from this point forward.

 

[Vartan]

Thanks for all the replies. Yeah, looks like my players were taken. Here is the store in question:

Dr. No's
3428 Canton Road
Marietta, GA 30066
(770) 422-4642

The owner is Buck, though Jared (an assistant manager or manager, I believe) is the one that told us about the new policy. I would like to pass this along to WotC; who exactly should I contact, and how?

Wow, that hits close to home. Dr. No's has been my comic shop / FLGS since 1987 (although I've only been four or five times in as many years). Cliff and or Brett wouldn't stand for something like this. If you're looking for local, organized play then check out NARPGA.

Words can't express how sad I am about this turn of events...Dr. No's used to be a great spot, but if they're pulling BS like this then something has gone very wrong

 

[Kzach]

I am Buck, the manager at Dr. No's Comics and Games.

You can justify your policy all you want but at the end of the day you know full well that the materials are supplied to you for free and that the overwhelming intention and understanding of the greater player community is that these events are free to attend.

Given that it’s not a mandatory event by any stretch of the imagination and that no advertising or additional expense, beyond a modicum of effort preparing an area, are required of you, it is therefore your choice to host the event or not.

Mess and space taken for an event such as this are par for the course and can’t be used as excuses for charging people to play in it. If they are such a concern, then you have the choice not to host the event at all.

Admit that you’ve taken advantage of an opportunity to charge people an admittance fee for what is, ostensibly, a free event. With virtually no expense on your part and free materials and advertising provided to you, you’ve profited.

That in turn has earned you the enmity of at least one customer and no doubt given that hardly anyone showed up for the day, you’ve, at the very least, earned the disapproval of other customers and potentially new customers.

Yet instead of apologising and admitting you did the wrong thing, you come here and justify your actions. I fully believe you think you haven’t done anything wrong, but the majority here believe you did, and it’s the majority that make up your customer base.

Alienating your customers and potential customers is never the right thing to do in business. As a business owner you should know that you have to put pride aside and cater to your customers. Whether you are right or wrong in charging for admittance is irrelevant when it comes to good business practice.

At the end of the day you’re in a slowly dying business model. It’s easier and often cheaper to buy online and you get the bonus of having it delivered to your doorstep. Electronic media is only going to grow and get better and more predominant, especially in the face of Web 2.0, HTML 5, CSS 3 and the rich, interactive media these technologies can bring to the end-user.

If I was you, I’d be doing everything in my power to foster good relations with my customer base, because it’s their decision to come into your store instead of using the variety of other options available to them, that is going to keep your business afloat. No amount of pride or self-righteousness will help you succeed in business.

 

[Dire Bare]

I am Buck, the manager at Dr. No's Comics and Games.

The last time we ran a D&D event for free (Players handbook 2), everyone who attended had already purchased the book from Amazon or elsewhere. They took space away from our customers who had wanted to play and those customers felt they deserved to play for being our customers. I agree with them.
To solve this we only allow our customers to participate in these type of events (unless otherwise specified by the Publisher.) If a person wants to take part in our events at the tables we designate for "Members Use Only," (as is posted in the gaming area and on the advertising on the television in the game area) they simply have to become a customer, even if it is for that day only. It is a simple policy and is in no way hidden.
Many of you have stated that letting "Free" play would bring in new customers. The "Free D&D Day" and the release weekend of Players Handbook 2, did not gain us any customers. Most said they were from other stores (who do not provide space at all for games.) They did not buy anything that day and left trash behind when they left. I never saw any of those folks again. That day is what changed our policy to what it is now. If someone is not going to be a customer of a store, they should not demand that the store then provide "free" space for play.
Our customers have our table space reserved for them. I would hope your store would do the same for you.

I'm sure you guys made the decision to charge for World Wide D&D Day with the best interests of your store in mind and without any intention to screw any customers over. You face some serious challenges as a local game store, and those challenges are shared by every other brick & mortar out there. In fact, I doubt your response is unique.

It was still a bad call.

I have an FLGS that has similar views to promotions such as D&D Day and Free RPG Day. I spend most of my gaming dollars on Amazon. If my local store handled these things more intelligently, I'd shop there more. If a new store opened up in town and wisely used these promotions as intended, I'd seriously consider giving them my business.

Rethink your views on these RPG Day and D&D Day promotions. As a previous poster mentioned, your business is tough enough as it is and you don't need foolish policies that go against the spirit of these promotions that will only alienate a portion of your customer base.

 

[Treebore]

Instead of this, Dr. No can do what my old LGS (presumably) does, charge a room usage fee. He charged $2/day. He provided a lot of space (Like 8 tables), provided the tables, the chairs, provided a public bathroom, and cleaned up after the pigs. Space he could have used to carry more product lines.

This way he is charging every day anyone desires to "rent" space in his rooms, and it is a matter of daily business policy. This way no one can be upset about being charged to play in a "Game Day", since we as customers already know we pay to maintain the gaming space for playing.

We found it to be fair, and we always were in there playing games pretty much every night of the week, and the store owner kept us supplied with chairs, tables, a bathroom, and even ended up stocking snacks and soda's and bottled water for our convenience and to allow him to make even more money off of our using his room.

Eventually he even sent up networked computers so people could rent them and play games on line as face to face groups, playing Neverwinter Nights, Everquest, WoW, etc...

So Dr. No, you are justified to charge for the use of your store space for gaming groups to game, but the way you are going about it seems to be far more arbitrary.

So I suggest you allow payment for "rent" in one of two ways. Buy a day ticket for $2.00, or give them the alternative of buying $20 or more in product. You could also tell them to keep their receipts when they buy stuff from you, and for every $20 spent on that receipt it counts for one day of free rental. Every time that receipt is used you or one of your employees sign and date for that day to keep track. If the customer loses the receipt, his loss.

There are far better ways for you to do this without seeming to black mail people who want to play in Game Days.

 

[Wycen]

Sorry about that. Information on this event was hard to get as a store owner and the commitment to running it was higher than normal, because of the unusual format, meaning we had to get buy-in from or RPGA volunteers to run it. It eventually went off and the group enjoyed it, but the calendar description never got beyond the "place holder" stage.

It's not like I wasn't part of the problem. I could have called and asked what what going on.

Hopefully it brought in some business.

 

[Mark Hope]

Count me in as another one who thinks that having an entry fee (however you disguise or justify it) to a Game Day is a bad idea.

Back in the mid-90s I used to run the rpg and games department of the American Book Center in The Hague. (In fact, it was during the exact period of TSR's decline and WotC's takeover, so a rather interesting period to be selling D&D, to say the least, lol...)

When we ran a Games Day, we did it on a Sunday, had staff come in to oversee the gaming and man the tills in case someone wanted to make a purchase - but never required it and never charged anything. Just make space and let the gamers do their stuff, run some demo games for people that are interested, and make for a cool geektastic atmosphere.

Because, in the long run, this kind of event is an investment. Some of the people who came along were already our customers. Many weren't - they were friends, relatives or passers-by who were drawn in by the idea of a day of gaming in a cool environment. And you know what? Many of those non-customers came back a few days later, bought stuff and ended up becoming long-term customers themselves. You're not just covering your bases or costs or whatever on the day itself. You're investing in future custom and marketing yourself as the kind of store that gamers want to come back to because it's such a damn cool place.

Did it work? Yes it did. During a time when D&D (our main seller) was crashing and burning, we kept our sales levels steady and rode out the rough times, not least because of the way we treated our customers - established customers as well as potential ones. I'd humbly suggest that in today's climate, retailers like Dr. No might do well to take a similar approach. After all, Dr. No can hardly claim that this has been a PR-win.

Just my (1996-era and now devalued) two cents (and they're not even proper cents anymore, they're Eurocents now, so are worth even less... but there you have it...)

 

[S'mon]

Y
What we do at our store is provide discounts on related products any time we have an in store event. For Game Day we give participants 10% off any D&D related purchases if they play. And they get to play for free.

This. I was just going to suggest this. It's the classy way to do it.

 

[BrianTC]

Here's the point being missed in this discussion: why is a particular grievance about a store policy being broadcast on a world-wide forum instead of being addressed to the owner or manager. I have always know Cliff, Buck, Jared and the rest of the employees at Dr. No's to be honest with customers. And, unlike a previous poster, I'm a regular at Dr. No's and am there at least once a week. They have always been friendly towards customers playing in the store and run the cleanest game store I've ever been in. Are there decisions made that I might not agree with? Yeah...but it's not my store. I don't make policy there. Dr. No's has been in the same location for nearly 30 years. They've been told by many, many people who disagreed with one decision of management that they would be chasing away customers and would be forced to close. Instead, they've expanded. They've never needed to rush to cons to make ends meet and always, always done right by their customers. Not some of you random internet trolls, but their actual, flesh-and-blood customers.

And, a final note...to whomever called the store to yell at an employee over this, you're a dick. Only one person was "harmed" by this incident. You had no place to call and harass the folks who work the counter.

 

[Umbran]

Here's the point being missed in this discussion: why is a particular grievance about a store policy being broadcast on a world-wide forum instead of being addressed to the owner or manager.

Because there was a question of lying. The OP reported being told that the policy was mandated by WotC, and asked if this were true, and/or where to find the truth. If one feels the employees are lying, a complaint would not be fruitful until it is backed up with knowledge.

We can quibble over whether or not making customers pay to use the space is a good business decision, but in the end the store management has the right to make its own decisions on the use of the space. None of us can contest that. However, pinning that decision on a third party would constitute an unethical business practice.

Only one person was "harmed" by this incident.

We, who were not present, do not know how many people were harmed. We have one complaint, but have no idea how many people (if any) were turned away with an untrue statement. If the allegation is true, WotC's business reputation was harmed. That is why it is being discussed.

Now, I feel I must slip into moderator voice:

Those of us who were not present, and thus have no access to the truth of the matter, should not harass the store or its employees, on these boards or elsewhere.

These boards are not a court of public opinion, and we will not allow the case to be tried here. The OP has been advised as to where to take official complaints.

We expect that everyone participating in this thread will conduct themselves in a civil and respectful manner, and take into consideration the fact that we cannot verify statements in this venue.