PCs are supposed to be able to stand up to deities?

[Al]

Fights between deities can't be much fun to play out.

Vecna: I cast a spell at him.
Pelor: (Yawn) I automatically save and automatically hit Vecna.
Vecna: I automatically cast Heal on the defensive.
Pelor: I automatically hit him again.
Vecna: I automatically cast an assault spell on the defensive.
Pelor: I automatically save.

etc.

 

[kreynolds]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: PCs are supposed to be able to stand up to deities?

As I don't have the book yet, I can only reference the web enhancement.

Go to the Wizars site and download the D&Dg web enhancement (If you don't already have it). Go to page 7 and read the "Always Maximize Roll" paragraph. It is clearly stated "You should roll the d20 anyway and use that roll to check for a threat or a critical hit. "

Yep. It's also in the book.

 

[IceBear]

Fights between deities can't be much fun to play out.

Vecna: I cast a spell at him.
Pelor: (Yawn) I automatically save and automatically hit Vecna.
Vecna: I automatically cast Heal on the defensive.
Pelor: I automatically hit him again.
Vecna: I automatically cast an assault spell on the defensive.
Pelor: I automatically save.

etc.

I'd probably play with the house rule that the automatic successes won't work against divine beings with the same (or higher) divinity level.

IceBear

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Fights won't be that bad, since the maximized rolls don't make the rolls natural 20's. So if the save DC is 80 and the other god only has +59, he still has to roll to see if he'll hava an actual natural 20.

 

[kreynolds]

Fights won't be that bad, since the maximized rolls don't make the rolls natural 20's. So if the save DC is 80 and the other god only has +59, he still has to roll to see if he'll hava an actual natural 20.

Nope. They automatically get a natural 20 on any check, attack roll, damage roll, saving throw and they don't need to roll to confirm. Rolling the "d20 anyway" only applies to attack rolls to confirm a critical hit. It doesn't apply to anything else.

 

[Dalin the Monk]

Nope. They automatically get a natural 20 on any check, attack roll, damage roll, saving throw and they don't need to roll to confirm. Rolling the "d20 anyway" only applies to attack rolls to confirm a critical hit. It doesn't apply to anything else.

Well, I don't have the book either.... but if this quote, "You should roll the d20 anyway and use that roll to check for a threat or a critical hit. " is in the book, as you indicated earlier, then it seems you need a roll to determine if there is a threat as well a roll to confirm a threat.

 

[kreynolds]

Well, I don't have the book either.... but if this quote, "You should roll the d20 anyway and use that roll to check for a threat or a critical hit. " is in the book, as you indicated earlier, then it seems you need a roll to determine if there is a threat as well a roll to confirm a threat.

You don't roll to determine if there is a threat. You roll to determine whether or not you get the crit. What happens when you get a 20? You automatically hit. What happens when you get a 20 and automatically hit? You threaten a crit. What happens when you threaten a crit? You roll to confirm the crit.

Gods with this ability (rank 16-20) automatically receive a 20 on attack rolls, thus they automatically hit, thus they automatically threaten a crit. They do, however, still have to roll to confirm the crit. Make sense?

Also, the proper quote is as follows:

You should roll the d20 anyway and use that roll to check for a threat of (not or) a critical hit.

 

[Dalin the Monk]

You don't roll to determine if there is a threat. You roll to determine whether or not you get the crit. What happens when you get a 20? You automatically hit. What happens when you get a 20 and automatically hit? You threaten a crit. What happens when you threaten a crit? You roll to confirm the crit.

Gods with this ability (rank 16-20) automatically receive a 20 on attack rolls, thus they automatically hit, thus they automatically threaten a crit. They do, however, still have to roll to confirm the crit. Make sense?

Well, as I stated, I don't have the books... so if thats how it's written, I accept your statement.

However, the quote that was listed here says you need to roll to determine if there is a threat... that tells me that you need to roll to see if there will be a possible crit. The quote also states that you need to roll to confirm a threat, which there doesn't seem to be any confusion about.


EDIT:

Ok, just saw that you put the actual quote. Again, unless there is something in the book that clarifies this... I see "threat of a critical hit" to mean, is there a chance that there is a crit?

 

[kreynolds]

Well, as I stated, I don't have the books... so if thats how it's written, I accept your statement.

However, the quote that was listed here says you need to roll to determine if there is a threat... that tells me that you need to roll to see if there will be a possible crit. The quote also states that you need to roll to confirm a threat, which there doesn't seem to be any confusion about.

The quote says to "roll to check for a threat of a critical hit". They already got the threat by getting an automatic 20 on their attack roll. When you get a 20, you threaten, but you must then roll to confirm your threat of a critical hit. If you do confirm it, you get a critical hit. The quote is simply pointing out that you must still confirm the crit.

If the designers meant something else, they should have stated it better. But it seems pretty cut and dry to me. This is just a combination of my reading of the statement and my understanding of the roots of combat, attack rolls, threats, and crits.

"That's just my opinion. I could be wrong." - Dennis Miller

 

[kreynolds]

Ok, just saw that you put the actual quote. Again, unless there is something in the book that clarifies this... I see "threat of a critical hit" to mean, is there a chance that there is a crit?

"is there a chance that there is a crit?"

That's what you roll for. You automatically get a chance for a critical hit when you roll a nat 20. The god's of rank 16-20 automatically get nat 20's with every single attack, thus they automatically get a chance for a critical hit, just like every other creature, player, and NPC in 3rd Edition. Also, just like everyone else, they must confirm the threat.