D&D 5E "People complain, but don't actually read the DMG!" Which sections specifically?

[Voadam]

The thing that probably frustrates me most about the dmg (and I realize this is an odd thing to be annoyed about) is the layout.

You are not alone.

I particularly hate how it regresses from earlier quality layout for use. In particular 4e had clear visual labels so each page labelled what chapter you were in so you could tell what that part of the book was dealing with when you flipped around.

In 5e when it says to follow up in the section X in Chapter Y it is difficult to find flipping around.

 

[Swarmkeeper]

You'll get much better mileage out of reading Return of the Lazy Dm, or the Alexandrian, or watching some of the Running the Game videos. Or in checking out some other games

System Split: Worlds Without Number and D&D Fifth Edition

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I think there's room for "Yes, and..." here. I think those excellent resources are best absorbed in the context of the core rulebooks.
As much as I love Slyflourish, for example, he keeps referring to the "Social Interaction" pillar as the "Roleplaying" pillar... stop that, Mike!

 

[Gadget]

I think sometimes the opposite is true: People claim that the DMG solves various problems if followed, but it is often a very superficial or unsatisfactory solution. For instance, many of the 'optional' rules offered therein are somewhat half-baked or come off as afterthoughts rather than fully vetted rules.

 

[Swarmkeeper]

I think sometimes the opposite is true: People claim that the DMG solves various problems if followed, but it is often a very superficial or unsatisfactory solution. For instance, many of the 'optional' rules offered therein are somewhat half-baked or come off as afterthoughts rather than fully vetted rules.

Such as?

 

[Parmandur]

I think sometimes the opposite is true: People claim that the DMG solves various problems if followed, but it is often a very superficial or unsatisfactory solution. For instance, many of the 'optional' rules offered therein are somewhat half-baked or come off as afterthoughts rather than fully vetted rules.

It's less about optional rules, and more about complaints from people not reading the basics

 

[prabe]

Such as?

The optional Flanking rules.

 

[Parmandur]

I think my issues with the 5e dmg can be epitomized by the section on experience points. Here's a typical problem: a new DM wants to award experience points for the social and exploration pillars of play. "How should I do that?" they ask the internet. Well, there's a section in the DMG all about awarding experience points! Here's what it says on that topic (p. 261)

Are those sentences of advice helpful? Are they specific to 5e in any way? If our hypothetical new dm just decided to make up a system of how to award non combat xp, what are the chances it would look exactly like this, but be better and more detailed?

Also why did our new dm not find these "rules" to begin with? Let's see where they are located in the book: they are in the chapter "running the game," which for some reason is chapter 8, near the end of the book. The section on awarding xp--a central facet of the DMs role--is located after rules for chases, siege equipment, diseases, poisons, and madness. Those are all not only not essential, but they very well may never come up in most campaigns.

The thing that probably frustrates me most about the dmg (and I realize this is an odd thing to be annoyed about) is the layout. Let's look at the actual page:

View attachment 148963


WTH is going on here? Instead of just fitting all the "rules" for experience points onto one page, they split it over two pages (the second page is half text and half art). Moreover, the section is actually split by the "madness" tables, which are much more prominent on the page. The 5e DMG is full of layout like this. It's like they just copied and pasted the text into their layout software and called it a day. It might not seem like a big deal, but it really affects the usability of the book, and makes it so that rules and advice (which, imo, is often half-baked to begin with) gets lost on the page.

So it might not be that people are being "lazy" in not reading the dmg. Rather it's a hard book to read and reference, the text is difficult to quickly parse, information is scattered and poorly organized, and pieces of good advice or helpful rules are lost amid all of the anodyne suggestions.
/rant

Yeah, the structure is Byzantine and wonky, which is why reading the whole thing will prevent misunderstandings.

 

[jmartkdr2]

Such as?

Flanking would be my go-to for this. It's just not a good rule as presented; it's not quite free advantage on all melee attacks but it's close. And that shuts down a lot of creative/clever play.

 

[Gadget]

Such as?

Flanking, the "Gritty Realism" rules. The former makes it to easy to get advantage and devalues abilities and spells that grant it. The latter does not really address the short rest vs long rest disparity among classes and can exacerbate issues.

 

[Malmuria]

Such as?

I actually like the DM workshop section, but take this idea from "plot points" (p. 269)

OPTION 3: THE GODS MUST BE CRAZY

With this approach, there is no permanent DM. Everyone makes a character, and one person starts as the DM and runs the game as normal. That person's character becomes an NPC who can tag along with the group or remain on the sidelines, as the group wishes.

At any time, a player can spend a plot point to become the DM. That player's character becomes an NPC, and play continues. It's probably not a good idea to swap roles in the middle of combat, but it ca n happen if your group allows time for the new DM to settle into his or her role and pick up where the previous DM left off.

Using plot points in this way can make for an exciting campaign as each new DM steers the game in unexpected directions. This approach is also a great way for would-be DMs to try running a game in small, controlled doses.

In a campaign that uses plot points this way, everyone should come to the table with a bit of material prepared or specific encounters in mind. A player who isn't prepared or who doesn't feel like DMing can choose to not spend a plot point that session.

Has anyone actually run dnd 5e in this way? I mean, it sounds really interesting, but it's basically a suggestion to develop an entirely new game using 5e rules. The section on plot points takes up only one column of one page, not enough to be fully developed (well actually, it extends for one sentence onto the next page because layout . Oh and it's after the mini section on "alien technology," where one would naturally find it. )