D&D (2024) People on this forum are creating confusion. Not WotC.

[Charlaquin]

I actually think putting out half backed systems like that so we can all mess around with it and make it better is great. My fear is this 70% approval or scrap will take great ideas that need work and throw them away.

It’s a time-honored tradition at this point.

 

[billd91]

I actually think putting out half backed systems like that so we can all mess around with it and make it better is great. My fear is this 70% approval or scrap will take great ideas that need work and throw them away.

Not all good or even great ideas are going to be right for the project at hand - which is an evolution of the game system that is still backward compatible with the most popular edition ever and with its largest player-base ever. They're looking for broad acceptance so they don't kill the golden goose they have in favor of something that might not be as successful. For a project like that, I don't think the 70% guideline is a terrible idea.

 

[Mistwell]

This time I fear, they are hearing again to loud voices (as shown in the druid video they made public before the survey ended).\

I disagree with this premise. They seem to be basing things on the survey process. They might respond to things they hear on the net, but a video response is not the same as changing the rules in response. Rules changes they make seem very much tied to survey responses they get. Not noise on the internet.

If you disagree, what change do you think they made to the rules which was not backed by survey responses? It's not the druid changes - they said very clearly they saw the survey responses coming in by the droves and changed direction because of that. They didn't need the survey end date to complete to see there was no way the overall survey response would get to the thresholds they needed it to get to, in order to stay with those rules. I just re-watched that video and the entire thing is focused on survey responses, not a few loud voices.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

I disagree with this premise. They seem to be basing things on the survey process. They might respond to things they hear on the net, but a video response is not the same as changing the rules in response. Rules changes they make seem very much tied to survey responses they get. Not noise on the internet.

If you disagree, what change do you think they made to the rules which was not backed by survey responses? It's not the druid changes - they said very clearly they saw the survey responses coming in by the droves and changed direction because of that. They didn't need the survey end date to complete to see there was no way the overall survey response would get to the thresholds they needed it to get to, in order to stay with those rules.

I hope you are correct. Maybe I drew a false conclusion there.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

I hope you are correct. Maybe I drew a false conclusion there.

But I still don't know how they got to the conclusion about unified subclass progression.

 

[HammerMan]

But I still don't know how they got to the conclusion about unified subclass progression.

The problem is we are all working with too little info.

Notice they almost never give numbers they make vague mention of “this did good this did bad” but then they also don’t talk much about their internal tests or the written responses. The few times they have give us a glimpse.

 

[Oofta]

It is a martial exploit that is from a heroic warrior. If we have to take what WoTC says then that is what they said

I do not care what the label said. If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, looks like a duck then it's a duck. A rose by any other name, just because a car is driven by electricity instead of a gas engine it it still a car, blah, blah, blah. Most martial powers felt like spells by another name to me. Therefore I am not making anything up, I'm not lying about how the game works, I'm relaying my impression of a game mechanic.

I played 4E for the duration of it's run. I'm allowed to have an opinion and manner of expressing my impressions that you disagree with. Fighters in 4E felt like they were all casting spells until the release of essentials.

 

[Parmandur]

But I still don't know how they got to the conclusion about unified subclass progression.

They have put multiple tests, with surveys. They got a lukewarm response, and the costs involved (making Dubclass swapping somewhat more awkemward) weren't worth it if people were not enthused.

 

[HammerMan]

I do not care what the label said. If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, looks like a duck then it's a duck.

It was walking like a martial maneuver and didn’t quak at all

I played 4E for the duration of its run. I'm allowed to have an opinion and manner of expressing my impressions that you disagree with.

Of course you are. You can even say you feel that it was too much like spell casting. You can’t (honestly) flat out state they were spells.

Fighters in 4E felt like they were all casting spells until the release of essentials.

Just like 5e spell action surge and second wind.

 

[Oofta]

It was walking like a martial maneuver and didn’t quak at all


Of course you are. You can even say you feel that it was too much like spell casting. You can’t (honestly) flat out state they were spells.

Spells in 4E were all powers. The only difference between what 4E called spells versus martial abilities was the label for the power source. I saw no difference between the two.

Just like 5e spell action surge and second wind.

Apples and oranges. Action surge is just that cool slow-motion move where the protagonist takes out multiple bad guys or lands multiple blows in quick succession on the big bad before kicking them off a cliff. Second wind happens all the time in action movies. The protagonist is down, looks like he's beaten and somehow he reaches deep, deep down and gets back up. Completely different from magically pulling enemies 15 feet towards you so you can clonk them on the head or having an aura that does auto damage as just two examples.

In any case, we disagree. Stop saying people lied about their impression of how powers for fighters looked just like spells for wizards and I'll drop the subject.