Personal Experience

[AuraSeer]

There are many more factors that can be used other then just spells. Terrain, how to move, what to move with. One can use almost every possible thing in their environment, and no by environment I'm not talking trees and such I'm talkin about their surroundings and what is around them.

I still don't understand what you mean. Maybe I'm just being dense.

How is environment any more deadly against archers than against melee opponents? I mean, sure it's easier to take cover from arrows, but that just pins you down and stops you from moving. It doesn't neutralize the archer himself.

 

[Gromm]

I've seen cases where archers can be disgustingly powerful, but in nearly every case, the characters were taking PrC's such as Order of the Bow or Deepwood Sniper. Interestingly enough, I've heard a couple of times on this board of Elven Cleric Archers who are presented as uber-characters.

We had a halfling fighter/rogue/DwS/OotB in my last campaign. It was disgusting. He literally dealt out hundreds of points of damage a round and killed arch-villians with a single arrow.

And yes, for those that know. I still live.

 

[Petrosian]

IMX...

Archers are a little too good for my money. The notion of staying out of melee range means at its core getting more FRAs and not taking as much return-fire. IMO this should come with a slight price and for archers i have not seen this to be the case.

However, its only slight.

The fixes that i would make, and will make, are as follows...

1. Turn rapid shot into two feats, one for one extra shot with -5 penalties and the other to reduce the penalties to -2.

2. Change the bow/arrow enhancement rules to "bow plusses are to-hit and arrow plusses are to damage." (alternatively, might just say they do not stack, period, for simplicity.)

those two changes IMo would bring things a little closer to what i see as balanced.

 

[Drasmir]

As far as taking out archers goes, never underestimate the use of sunder and disarm. Sure, a good archer may deal quite a bit of damage in their first round, but if you swarm that archer with 3-4 enemies to destroy/disarm the bow... that archer is DONE.

 

[AuraSeer]

If the archer is a few hundred feet away (which is no problem for a composite longbow), you'll need an awfully long weapon to try Sundering.

 

[LokiDR]

Elimination of an archer by breaking the bow has a few problems:

1) mooks won't have a high enough bonus on their weapons to harm the bow

2) you have to reach the archer

3) I don't like taking away hard earned equipment (especially if it is hard to replace like a fighter's very enchanted primary weapon)

 

[Drasmir]

If the archer is a few hundred feet away (which is no problem for a composite longbow), you'll need an awfully long weapon to try Sundering.

In a dungeon (cavern, cave, etc...) being a few hundred feet away is really not going to happen that often (although the Grand Canyon might work ). Also, most combats don't happen at that far away anyway, regardless of the terain. Even in open plains (grasslands with little cover) the average spotting distance for encounters is 420 ft. and it goes down from there. Check out the SRD under Carrying/Moving/Seeing.

If above ground with little cover the archer will rule, but by the same guidelines, so does a mage.

 

[Hypersmurf]

If the archer is a few hundred feet away (which is no problem for a composite longbow), you'll need an awfully long weapon to try Sundering.

There's always the Ranged Sunder feat from Dragon 275, that eliminates the half-damage to objects with a ranged weapon.

Sunder his bow... with your bow!

-Hyp.

 

[Berk]

I still don't understand what you mean. Maybe I'm just being dense.

How is environment any more deadly against archers than against melee opponents? I mean, sure it's easier to take cover from arrows, but that just pins you down and stops you from moving. It doesn't neutralize the archer himself.

Give me a scenario and I'll solve it for ya on how to take out the archer.

 

[Tar-Edhel]

Give me a scenario and I'll solve it for ya on how to take out the archer.

That's easy and can be done with any classes. Every DM knows how to 'take an archer out'. But as a DM, I do not want to be thinking about my anti-archery trick of the day each and every single encounter. It is bothersome for me and will tick off my archer player who will think (rightfully) that I am against him.

Why don't you give us a few examples? Some ways to stop archers that will not sound cheesy if used repeatedly?

That being said, archers IMC were fragile folks who dealt insane amount of damage... but were more often than not beaten to a pulp as soon as melee reached them.

Less AC, less hp (you did put your best scores on strength and dexterity, right?) and far less offensive capacities in close quarters (than meleers, of course).

And we never saw a fighter/rogue/sorcerer/OotBI/DWS/AA/PrA, which might explain why I think achers are not such a big deal. Our gaming group finds PrC stacking.. inelegant. Out of 6 characters, we only have one PrC so far (level ranges: 12-17).