D&D 5E Persuade, Intimidate, and Deceive used vs. PCs

[JediGamemaster]

Yeah, exactly. Totally fair for NPCs to use Deception/Persuasion/Intimidation against other NPCs.

It's also totally fair to use them on PCs, if that's the way you play the game. I'm just surprised how many people play that way. It does (at least partially) explain why my reservations about Warlords fall on so many deaf ears. This thread helps me grok why my point of view is so hard for some people to see.

woah... no this has nothing to do with the magic cheerleader class that is completely different... no skill can shout a wound closed in my games...

 

[pukunui]

why? would you ask the player of a rouge how he is picking a lock?

I might, yes, but it doesn't need to be a detailed description. For one thing, I need to know if they're using their thieves' tools or not.

I suggest you have a look at the "How to Play" section in the 5e PHB (on page 6).

 

[Guest 6801328]

but it is because of an outside action, an action that has rules... why do green hags have Deception +4 and knight hags Deception +7, Insight +6, and flyaers Deception +6, Insight +6, Persuasion +6, and the orcs

basic Skills Intimidation +2
war chief Skills Intimidation +5
eye of G Skills Intimidation +3
orog Intimidation +5

"The war chief brandishes his spear and lets out a war howl....let's see, he gets an 18 so that's a 23...your three NPCs shake in their boots and one pees his pants. They're going to be at -10 initiative if a fight breaks out. What do the rest of you do?"

 

[Guest 6801328]

woah... no this has nothing to do with the magic cheerleader class that is completely different... no skill can shout a wound closed in my games...

Ok, I *really* don't want to derail this thread (damn I should haven't mentioned the W-word) so let's forget I said that.

 

[JediGamemaster]

I use them against NPCs and other monsters when what they try to do has an uncertain outcome or as a way of setting a DC when making opposed rolls with the PCs.

I don't roll anything npc vs npc at that point I just tell a story...

Whether Ekman is the real thing or a clever fraud is widely debated, but even if he is really good at detecting lies he has been unable to actually teach it to police departments.

I don't know anything about him being called a fraud any more or less then any other phycologist...

I disagree. The former is saying how a character thinks, feels, or acts - intimidated. The latter is describing the environment. It's not a word game. It's being careful about infringing upon the players' role.

I am using a game mechanic to effect the PC... the PC can choose to go with it or resist it (it would be an oppsed roll) so I wouldn't just say he DID intimidate, I would say roll x I got a y and the dice determine it...

I would disagree with this. "The guard is trying to be intimidating" is analogous to "it's raining outside."

"The guard intimidated you" is analogous to "the rain makes you depressed".

The former describe events in the environment. The latter describe the PC's reactions to those events.

not if an outside force effected you...

 

[JediGamemaster]

I might, yes, but it doesn't need to be a detailed description. For one thing, I need to know if they're using their thieves' tools or not.

I suggest you have a look at the "How to Play" section in the 5e PHB (on page 6).

then "I'm using my insight to see if he is lying"

 

[Guest 6801328]

not if an outside force effected you...

Yeah I'm not trying to say you are playing wrong, just very differently than I do, in a way that never even occurred to me until recently.

 

[JediGamemaster]

"The war chief brandishes his spear and lets out a war howl....let's see, he gets an 18 so that's a 23...your three NPCs shake in their boots and one pees his pants. They're going to be at -10 initiative if a fight breaks out. What do the rest of you do?"

if it was only going to effect NPCs I would just say "These three seem to be scared...there reflexs are way slower then normal" no need to roll at all... rolls are for pc/npc interactions 75+% of the time

 

[JediGamemaster]

Yeah I'm not trying to say you are playing wrong, just very differently than I do, in a way that never even occurred to me until recently.

I don't think your doing it wrong either, I do think that your way works mostly if you know and have a long time friendship/understanding with your players

 

[Guest 6801328]

if it was only going to effect NPCs I would just say "These three seem to be scared...there reflexs are way slower then normal" no need to roll at all... rolls are for pc/npc interactions 75+% of the time

Oh? So you'd have the NPCs be Intimidated without even rolling? Because the War Chief's bonus implies he's "good" at it?