D&D General PETITION: Acknowledge Hasbro's hurtful content (Black orcs, Asian yellow orcs, Native American red orcs)—through an Amendatory Bundle [+ thread]

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The Glen

Legend
I would like to see an "Orcs of Thar" written from a more serious, more modern perspective. That whole Gazetteer was problematic from cover to cover, but there were nuggets of good stuff hidden in there that could make for an interesting campaign setting or add-on. If not WotC, maybe Goodman Games could put out an updated version, much like they have done with some of the classic Mystara modules? They're one of the few publishing houses that I would trust to get it right.

Off the top of my head: they could get rid of the cartoonish artworks and silly names, and replace it all with crunchy mechanics, timelines and backstory, new maps, new art, and tons of lore on the environment of the Badlands. They could rewrite the orc and clan factions with more modern sensibilities, and like the petition suggests, just drop racial stereotypes wholesale--they contribute nothing good to an otherwise interesting product idea. They could even keep the board game, provided they could eliminate (not dilute, not "tone down," but utterly destroy) the racist tropes, imagery, and names.

TL;DR: Doing this the right way would require a complete rebuild, not a mere "cleanup." It should be unrecognizable from the original, because (flips through the original, gesturing widely).
That would be the logical choice. They used Holloway as the principle artist and its hard not to go silly with his style. Granted nobody did facial expressions as well as that man.

Mystara is about fantasy versions of real world cultures. Only picking out the ones that depict minorities is a bit disingenuous since they did it to quite a few other nations as well. The Hattians were cartoon Germans. The Ost-Dook gnomes weren't even trying to disguise the fact they were Belgian parodies. Cimmeron is stereotypical Texas as imagined by other people. Nobody is demanding these nations being rewritten.

Want to rewrite the book it doesn't reflect the TSR silly phase? Fine. I have reasonable rates. But people needs to remember what's offensive to one person isn't shared by others even of the same group. You can easily revise the book and say the orcs steal the cultures of those that have defeated them in the past, which is mentioned in the Ethengar book. You still keep the humanoid threat and they keep the trappings of the human cultures but you remove the humor. Problem solved.
 

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Vaalingrade

Legend
Mystara is about fantasy versions of real world cultures. Only picking out the ones that depict minorities is a bit disingenuous since they did it to quite a few other nations as well. The Hattians were cartoon Germans. The Ost-Dook gnomes weren't even trying to disguise the fact they were Belgian parodies. Cimmeron is stereotypical Texas as imagined by other people. Nobody is demanding these nations being rewritten.
Those aren't punching down.

There's a difference between picking on people who are socially on a level or above you and picking on people you're already pushing down in other ways.
 

wellis

Explorer
Those aren't punching down.

There's a difference between picking on people who are socially on a level or above you and picking on people you're already pushing down in other ways.
I would say writing any culture as a stereotype is punching down. Especially when the stereotypes are based on misconceptions.

It's deeply hypocritical to only cry about one representation, but be okay with other bad representations.
 

Cadence

Legend
Supporter
I would say writing any culture as a stereotype is punching down. Especially when the stereotypes are based on misconceptions.

It's deeply hypocritical to only cry about one representation, but be okay with other bad representations.

Punching down has a meaning. You might think this is still bad, but it isn't punching down.
 


The Glen

Legend
To avoid the disingenuous accusations of censorship and book burning that come with actually pulling it or even thinking of pulling it. Everything must be available forever or you're a monster.
Trying to find the discontinued garlic chili Ramen flavor for my daughter who apparently can't live without it I have to say that argument makes a lot of sense
 

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Supporter
Only picking out the ones that depict minorities is a bit disingenuous since they did it to quite a few other nations as well.

That doesn't actually make it better. If one is an even-handed jerk, that's still being a jerk.

The Hattians were cartoon Germans. The Ost-Dook gnomes weren't even trying to disguise the fact they were Belgian parodies. Cimmeron is stereotypical Texas as imagined by other people. Nobody is demanding these nations being rewritten.

They aren't overall disadvantaged on the world stage, either.

Poking fun at the foibles of those who are generally comfortable in their socioeconomic situation is not really the same as kicking people who are already down. The phrase, "pick on someone your own size," comes to mind.
 

Redwizard007

Adventurer
Punching down has a meaning. You might think this is still bad, but it isn't punching down.
That's not entirely true. Some people still believe that there are social hierarchies that put one European culture above another, typically with eastern or southern Europeans at the bottom. If it were a Brit or American taking shots at the Greeks or Italians then it could certainly still be punching down. Not as badly as taking shots at historically oppressed people, but still pretty tasteless.
 

That doesn't actually make it better. If one is an even-handed jerk, that's still being a jerk.



They aren't overall disadvantaged on the world stage, either.

Poking fun at the foibles of those who are generally comfortable in their socioeconomic situation is not really the same as kicking people who are already down. The phrase, "pick on someone your own size," comes to mind.
But who gets to decide who's up and who's down. You? The majority of this board? The most vocal minority of this board? Those who voice opinions closest to "modern sensibilities" (and who gets to decide who's closest?)?
If taking stabs at some nations/people is bad, it should be bad taking stabs at any nation/people. Anything else is just double standard, imo.
 


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