D&D 5E PHB Races in a Post-MotM 5E

[HaroldTheHobbit]

The players at my table are a conservative bunch gamewise. So usually they are happy with ye olde races. They are also quite adept at developing standard PHB races into interesting and varied characters. And if they feel the urge to play something a bit more exotic it's never a problem, no one has any hang-ups if the power balance fluctuate a bit. But then we are more into the social and roleplaying aspects than combat.

So it's really not a problem for me, which I'm happy for.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Seriously folks, Level Up's system is much stronger, and includes all these elements.

I mean, that's lovely, but it's pretty off-topic.

The thread topic is an important and valid question - what are the corebook races going to look like under the modern race design paradigm WotC are using. Talking about Level Up's approach is a distraction from that. You might as well discuss Pathfinder 2E's approach. We know, approximately, the sort of approach WotC is taking, and it's very much not the Level Up one, for better or worse.

Ok, so nothing "unofficial" is of value to you. Got it.

I think a lot of people don't want to complicate the rules further, which is actually an objective of Level Up (as I understand it), and further, a lot of people (10m) use D&D Beyond. And D&D Beyond lets you use 3PP material, but only within the broad constraints of existing D&D. You can easily write a new race or the like, but you can't introduce new systems. This means that the value of 3PP material is decreased significantly for those 10m unless it fits within existing bounds. Adventures become the most valuable 3PP asset under this scenario. So you're not merely fighting an "attitude", you're fighting practicality, which is a much harder thing to deal with. And WotC is probably going to double-down on this, rather than taking an inviting attitude to 3PP material, because it benefits them and locks people in to their "ecosystem", which as they continue to want to be a "lifestyle" brand and not just a game will only be reinforced.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I mean, that's lovely, but it's pretty off-topic.

The thread topic is an important and valid question - what are the corebook races going to look like under the modern race design paradigm WotC are using. Talking about Level Up's approach is a distraction from that. You might as well discuss Pathfinder 2E's approach. We know, approximately, the sort of approach WotC is taking, and it's very much not the Level Up one, for better or worse.

I think a lot of people don't want to complicate the rules further, which is actually an objective of Level Up (as I understand it), and further, a lot of people (10m) use D&D Beyond. And D&D Beyond lets you use 3PP material, but only within the broad constraints of existing D&D. You can easily write a new race or the like, but you can't introduce new systems. This means that the value of 3PP material is decreased significantly for those 10m unless it fits within existing bounds. Adventures become the most valuable 3PP asset under this scenario. So you're not merely fighting an "attitude", you're fighting practicality, which is a much harder thing to deal with. And WotC is probably going to double-down on this, rather than taking an inviting attitude to 3PP material, because it benefits them and locks people in to their "ecosystem", which as they continue to want to be a "lifestyle" brand and not just a game will only be reinforced.

I understand that a lot of people made what I consider a mistake and have committed to DDB, which depending on their perspective may be biting them in the butt now.

Also, unlike Pathfinder 2e, level up is compatible with 5e.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

I understand that a lot of people made what I consider a mistake and have committed to DDB, which depending on their perspective may be biting them in the butt now.

I don't think anyone particularly feels that, though, do they?

It's not a sentiment I've really seen expressed re: DDB, even when people are annoyed with them. On the contrary they tend to be annoyed because DDB is developing stuff too slowly. I think the reason it's not is because as a value proposition, the value of DDB to most groups is pretty good, and there are no real alternatives (Foundry/Roll20 aren't alternatives), and most groups only use 3PP material that's compatible with DDB, which is to say the vast majority of straightforward 3PP material - subclasses, races, spells, magic items, monsters, etc.

I have yet to come across anyone on DDB mad because they don't support Level Up or the like. And I suspect about 80-90% of current D&D players use only official/homebrew material anyway, not because they're "biased against" 3PPs, but because it's simply not something that they're familiar with. It's actually pretty difficult to even learn about 3PP stuff outside of KS, if you're more in the mainstream of gaming.

Also, unlike Pathfinder 2e, level up is compatible with 5e.

Which again, is irrelevant to the topic at hand. Both are equally irrelevant.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I don't think anyone particularly feels that, though, do they?

It's not a sentiment I've really seen expressed re: DDB, even when people are annoyed with them. On the contrary they tend to be annoyed because DDB is developing stuff too slowly. I think the reason it's not is because as a value proposition, the value of DDB to most groups is pretty good, and there are no real alternatives (Foundry/Roll20 aren't alternatives), and most groups only use 3PP material that's compatible with DDB, which is to say the vast majority of straightforward 3PP material - subclasses, races, spells, magic items, monsters, etc.

I have yet to come across anyone on DDB mad because they don't support Level Up or the like. And I suspect about 80-90% of current D&D players use only official/homebrew material anyway, not because they're "biased against" 3PPs, but because it's simply not something that they're familiar with. It's actually pretty difficult to even learn about 3PP stuff outside of KS, if you're more in the mainstream of gaming.


Which again, is irrelevant to the topic at hand. Both are equally irrelevant.

Level Up does have its own online tools though, so if you are interested you don't have to be stymied by what is likely to be an increasingly exclusive DDB content policy.

 

[LadyElect]

i have a question-for those of you DMing are you worlds fulll of all these humanoids? i cant my group to embrace anything outside of the core races and even then none have a dragonborn. Are you mixing warforged in with bugbears and all other strixhaven races etc.

Part of my interest here was due to how I had already leaned toward Tasha's/MotM's less strictly defined design style and brought in other side content (Grung) to my brewed setting. I somewhat align various chargen options by setting/location in-universe, and I deviate totally from any official characterizations in other regards. But there are also options I totally disregard (Warforged and Gith, as examples) just because they don't integrate with the setting I want to build.

Now, all of that design work is nice and fun for me, though it doesn't ever do much for the one friend that just loves always being a human.

 

[wicked cool]

so just curious do you say all except warforged and gith are good?

 

[LadyElect]

so just curious do you say all except warforged and gith are good?

No, I personally have other exclusions, though some may enter my setting at some point if I have an idea and find a purpose for them.

Of the common options, I don't use Half-Elf/Half-Orc myself since I don't portray the same social structure and don't care have to consider the player question of "why these halves but not those?". I don't use the Genasi since I don't portray an elemental plane in a way that made me care to write them in yet. Lots of the non-reprinted setting-specific stuff like Loxodon or the newer options like Owlin/Harengon haven't come up, etc.

Of course, that's only regarding my own brew and not if someone else is running or we use an official module so it hasn't been a cause for concern for my group (yet).